Exploring Kink for Deeper Human Connections - Todd Maxcary

Ever wondered how sensuality can transcend physical touch and foster deeper human connections? Join me, Avik, as I sit down with Todd Maxcary, the visionary behind the documentary "Touch Kink," to unravel the truths behind kink and BDSM, breaking away from the myths and misconceptions that shroud them in mystery. Todd shares his eye-opening journey through 137 countries, challenging the stereotypes that often paint kink enthusiasts in a negative light. We delve into the transformative power of vulnerability and openness, redefining intimacy as more than just a physical connection but as a profound expression of human identity and creativity.

As we peel back the layers of society's stigmas around kink, we uncover how consent and communication are not only crucial but can lead to stronger emotional bonds than traditional norms. Kink, often misunderstood as an extreme niche, emerges as a celebration of individuality and a testament to human creativity. Through candid conversations, we explore how honest interactions can enrich personal relationships and empower individuals to embrace their identities without fear of judgment. Our discussion challenges the societal norms that label unconventional desires as 'weird,' allowing for a more inclusive understanding of personal proclivities.

For those curious to explore the world of kink, we provide resources like Jay Wiseman's "SM 101" and Todd's documentary, offering a thoughtful introduction to this diverse world. We emphasize the importance of consent and aftercare, likening the exploration of kink to choosing a travel destination—exciting yet requiring respect and understanding. Our conversation concludes with a focus on the transformative role of communication in any relationship, advocating for clear consent and emotional fulfillment that often surpasses conventional interactions. Todd's insights from "Touch Kink" challenge and inspire us

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Chapters

• 0:00 Exploring Sensuality and Consent in Kink
• 9:12 Breaking Down Society's Views on Kink
• 18:46 Navigating Kink
• 25:31 Prioritizing Consent and Aftercare in Kink

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Sensuality is an enriching experience that transcends mere physical touch. It invites us to explore openness and vulnerability, creating deeper connections with others. By engaging in mindful touch, we enhance our awareness of each other's desires and boundaries. This practice cultivates intimacy, as it encourages honest communication and emotional safety. Each caress becomes a dialogue between bodies, transcending words and allowing us to connect on a profound level. Embracing the art of sensuality fosters trust, reigniting passion and curiosity in relationships. It's a journey of discovery, inviting us to celebrate the beauty of human connection through the transformative power of touch.

Speaker 2: 0:59

Hey everyone, welcome to Pleasure Principles, the podcast where we strip away preconceptions. Welcome to Pleasure Principles, the podcast where we strip away preconceptions, unravel the debuts and explore the many dimensions of intimacy. So I'm your host, avik, and today we are stepping into the intriguing and misunderstood world of kink and BDSM. Our guest today is Todd Maxcary, so welcome to the show, max.

Speaker 3: 1:23

Thank you. Thank you for having me, Avik. I really appreciate the opportunity to have a chat.

Speaker 2: 1:28

Lovely, lovely. So, max, before we start, I'd love to introduce you to all of our listeners. Dear listeners, max is the bold mind behind Touch Kink, a groundbreaking documentary that aims to shatter the myths and bring a fresh perspective on the consensual kink practices. So, with over 30 years of globe trotting across 137 countries, his unique experiences fill his passion for challenging the norms and questioning what we think we know. So are you ready to redefine the boundaries of intimacy? Then let's dive in. So welcome to the show again, max. Thank you very much Appreciate it.

Speaker 3: 2:12

It's nice to be here and yeah, I think this whole thing is a bit of a mission for me because I see a lot of the problems in the world and between people is boiling down to just misunderstanding and not really understanding, not sort of we have the expression of walking a mile in someone else's shoes. If we would take the opportunity to get to know people a little bit better, what they're interested in, not judge them so quickly we can just listen a little longer and judge a little slower we can make a lot of progress on a lot of things perfect perfect, so um so max, like what initially drew you to uh create the touch king um I've had the opportunity to travel a lot in my life.

Speaker 3: 2:57

I did a lot of travel, sort of documentaries, and I always found it amazing how every country has gold. Every place there's things to learn, and so I guess it was a natural evolution to start getting to subcultures. You know, when I found a subculture that I thought was misunderstood and that I thought there was really sort of gold there, it made me curious and kink. Dominatrix a number of years ago. I had never met someone. Maybe I had met dominatrixes before, but I didn't know.

Speaker 3: 3:27

This is the first time I consciously sat down with the dominatrix and I realized how little I knew about her life and I realized how little I and how many judgments I had. And that really bothered me that I, you know, thinking of myself as a bit of a man of the world, would be so quick to judge someone based on the profession, and she was just so calm and so nice and so took the time to really explain it to me, uh, that I just found the whole world fascinating, and that was the beginning of this project of uh, going deeper into this world. It's a it's a world that is judged very harshly. So you have to have an entree, you have to have somebody to bring you in to vouch for you and and she did that for me, which uh led to this sort of amazing journey of uh discovery yeah, exactly true.

Speaker 2: 4:16

So, uh, okay, and uh, uh, like, what are some of the biggest misconceptions about kink that you hope to challenge through your documentary?

Speaker 3: 4:29

I think the biggest one is this notion that somehow people are strange or that they're mentally damaged or they are some sort of pervert or something. I mean don't get me wrong, there are bad people in the world, but it's not. You know, there are people that do things, but what we're talking about when I talk about kink is ethical, is consensual kink, where there's lots of conversations, there's clear consent, there's play and there's doing those things. It's not making a bunch of assumptions. So I think that getting that message out was really important to me. And the biggest misconception, I think, is that people automatically think that these people are strange or damaged somehow because they have an interest in kink or BDSM.

Speaker 2: 5:17

Exactly yeah, and also people often think that kink is about control or even danger. So what's your response to that?

Speaker 3: 5:31

Well, first of all, you have to have a brief little definition of what kink is. Think of kink as this big house and half the house is BDSM and half the house is fetishism. Under BDSM, one of the things they play with is actually control uh, you know, discipline and domination and submission, these kinds of things. So it's a lot of things. It's a big subject. I mean, we're talking about a very, very big subject. So, um, you know, it's one of those things that you have to be a little bit more specific on what aspect you are. But the biggest thing that people need to know is that we're talking about simply being open and honest about what you're interested in, finding people that hopefully, will not judge you and, you know, make you feel shame. Then you can discuss what you're interested in an open event. Maybe you find someone that wants to try some of these activities with you. If they do, they can sense that and they know what they're consenting to. You have to make sure they fully understand you do whatever you said you're going to do. You keep it within the parameters that were discussed. You don't go change the rules halfway through. You have the fun, you do the thing and then you check in with that person afterwards and if it was good for them, you could start that process again. And maybe next time you do something more or less than you did before or completely different than you did before. But it's this circle. This is the thing that I really want to drive home with people. It's not about what you do. It never is. It's always about how you do it.

Speaker 3: 7:02

If someone you go walk up to a stranger and slap them across the face, that's bad. If someone particularly likes that sensation, for whatever reason, agrees to do it, you agree on the parameters and how hard you're going to hit and what's going to happen. And they're really looking forward to it. And you, they have a safe way to get out of it. And you, you give them that experience. And then you check in with them after Was that too much? Was it not enough? And then go back to the beginning of talking again. That's okay. That's okay. It's the ethical circle of talking with the human being, being compassionate, getting that connection, getting that clear consent, doing that thing and then finishing the circle by checking in with them again, as opposed to simply just doing something and not caring. You know that's wrong in any case, whether it's business or naughtiness, doing something and not caring about the other person is always wrong, whereas if you're following that circle of consent that's human. Then you can explore things more safely.

Speaker 2: 8:04

True, yeah, exactly. And also like how does your film highlight the elements of trust and consent in kink that many people overlook?

Speaker 3: 8:18

I tried to bake that right into the film. The film is basically structured into three parts, four parts, I should say. One is, you know, negotiation. It's like I'm sort of negotiating with the audience a little bit and saying, look, here's what the people, here's what some of their concerns are. A lot of people in the past have, you know, been maligned as mentally ill, these kinds of things.

Speaker 3: 8:40

This is the discussion that we're having. I'm hoping that they're going to consent to sort of watch the film and we're going to go through the parameters of a few different people's lives, different, different kinds of activities that people are interested in. We show those activities, um, we give some insights into showing the playing. So we've gone negotiation to consent to play and then I'd like to finish the film off with aftercare, with what it was for these people, what their experience was in these experiences. So the film is sort of baked, has that circle of consent and circle of, you know, humanness baked right into it. And if people remember one thing from the film, I'd like them just to sort of consciously, you know, talk to each other without shame, arrive at some sort of clear consent that's informed and it's something that people are very clear about and they have safe words. If they're, you know, if they're not 100% sure those things are agreed on that they do whatever they do and then they take care of that person afterwards both, both people, the top and the bottom.

Speaker 2: 9:47

And if they do that circle and if remember that circle, I'll feel very happy exactly, yeah, and uh also like uh to those who think that kink is just a niche or extreme practice, then how would you explain its broader relevance in the relationships?

Speaker 3: 10:06

Well, excuse me, Kink itself is actually a funny word because it's sort of self-cannibalizing in the sense that by definition, theoretically, it's a minority interest, which means the second more people do it and don't do it. It's not really a kink anymore, which is a funny thing because so many people, so many things that people think are kinky people probably have done on some level, like maybe a little bit of light bondage, maybe a little bit of, you know, a little bit of blindfolding, a little bit of power play, these things, a little bit of role play. I think almost everybody's tried these things at some point. So you know, you may be more kinky than you realize.

Speaker 3: 10:46

There's this tendency that you know I'm normal and everybody else is unusual, whereas you're probably already kinky, you probably already have proclivities. You're just kind of a little bit in denial, you know. I think you know it's a very, very common thing. I mean, in the Western culture at least, men will often say, oh, I like, you know, boobs, or I like legs, you know, and think that's totally normal. Well, actually that's a fetish. It just happens to be a very common fetish, but it's a fetish nonetheless to sort of want to be with someone simply because they have a certain physical attribute. I'm not going to say it's a bad thing, I'm just saying that that is a fetish right there.

Speaker 3: 11:36

So people have them, whether they realize or not. You know, maybe your fetish is someone who has a good conversation, maybe someone your fetish is someone beautiful eyes. You know you're probably already kinky. You live in the house of kink, whether you realize it or not, because you're human and you're creative and you your mind works a million different ways and it's okay. You know you're not the only one out there that has interesting thoughts sometimes. The question again is just dealing with an ethical way. You know, uh, how to live your best life in an ethical and a good way that uh allows you to move forward and be creative with these things you know that's very true.

Speaker 2: 12:09

Yeah, that's very true. So, uh, you know that's very true, yeah, that's very true. So, uh, okay, like and uh king practices actually foster the stronger emotional connections than the traditional sexual norms, absolutely um, one of the fundamental tenants is open communication, uh, honesty with your partner.

Speaker 3: 12:34

There there's no point in hiding anything. I never understood why people do that anyway, because you're setting yourself up for disaster. So if you can be honest with your partner and your partner is ready to listen and not judge you, I mean that's an incredibly powerful thing. And maybe your partner's not up for something at that time. But things change. I mean, I'm getting more long in the tooth myself and I'm fascinated, when I look back on my life, of how my interests have changed. Things that I thought were weird at one point become interesting at other points and things that I thought were normal kind of become weird.

Speaker 3: 13:09

We evolve as human beings, so being able to talk with your partner and being able to be really, really honest and not have your partner judge you too quickly is invaluable. And it's such a tough thing for many people because society wants to sort of put you in a little box, you know, wants you to be like this or like that You're, you know, a good boy is this, a good girl is this, and you know, and you know anything else is just weird. So we push against that. But I guarantee that when we do, and we can maybe do it in our private lives at least um, we will grow as as couples, we will grow as human beings. Now I'm not saying and I think some people maybe take this too far where they they uh, put it in everyone's face, kind of thing.

Speaker 3: 13:52

I think there's still a lot to be said for being civilized and being respectful of a given culture, a given situation, whether that's a particular family, a particular religion, a particular country. It's always important to be respectful. If I'm going to come to your house, I'm going to ask you if I'm supposed to take my shoes off or leave my shoes on. I'm going to find out what the traditions are, so I'm going to show respect for you and your house in a public way. What we're talking about is private conversations, your private friends, your private connections, those people you need to be more open with and those people you need to be more honest with. And if you do, you're rewarded. You're rewarded with intense connections because you find out, you know you're not the only one, and it's a wonderfully creative world that fosters deep, deep connection, because you can talk about deep, deep things while at the same time having a public face that you know is more generally fitting and you can be two people and I think you should be two people.

Speaker 2: 14:51

Exactly Understood Perfect Perfect. And also, like listeners might ask, that isn't kink just about fulfilling the unusual fantasies? Or how does your film address the deeper or human side of it?

Speaker 3: 15:08

Well, you know it all boils down to judgment. You know, you say the unusual fantasies or whatever. I mean what? Turing, the inventor of the computer, was gay. You know Leonardo da Vinci was arrested for such things.

Speaker 3: 15:40

I mean, creativity and being willing to sort of go against the norm is actually such an important thing. It helps us, it will help us advance the world. So I don't know, I don't think there is such a thing as unusual, unusual. Or if there is unusual, unusual is great, because unusual is creative and creative is what we need. The world is faced with so many challenges right now and so many things that we have to get past. It occurs to me that the most creative minds will be those minds that you might think have unusual interests. Uh, but those same minds are the people that are probably going to invent the world in the future and hopefully save us from a lot of the challenges that we're looking at in the future. So not only is it, you know, not an unusual interest, I would say that we should. We should encourage people to explore these creative uh, in your words, unusual interests, because that is a cultural imperative, it's a human imperative right now, to really encourage that diversity, encourage that creativity. Don't stamp on it, because we're going to need that to solve the problems of the future.

Speaker 3: 16:50

So I don't think there's anything such as things unusual. Ideas are ideas and you can explore them any way you want Again, as long as you don't hurt people in the process. That's about. The only rule I got is don't hurt anybody, you know, and don't do anything without consent. You know, without clear, informed consent. Otherwise, I don't really think there is anything unusual. Everything exists in the world. I mean, yeah, it really does Understood.

Speaker 2: 17:17

So how do you think society's outdated views on kink impact those who practice it openly?

Speaker 3: 17:25

I think I'll probably get myself into trouble, but I think a lot of the time society is really just kind of dumbs down everything for people. Society sometimes is kind of assuming that you're not very clever so you can't understand a nuanced view of the world. Therefore, we're just going to give you some hard rules Just don't do that, which may or may not be useful. Probably I suppose it is. If you're a child and you you know it's not. You don't want to explain to the child that the boiling water is going to burn them. You just say don't touch that.

Speaker 3: 17:56

You know, society kind of creates these rules to protect us, assuming that we don't know a lot, and I think it's important to recognize that. It's important to recognize that it's a guideline. But society that tries to be dogmatic and says you know, just don't do it. We're never going to tell you why don't do it. It's not a useful society and frankly it's sort of insulting. It really is saying we don't think you're smart enough to understand the nuance of any of these situations. So we're just going to tell you those people over there are bad, those things over there are good, and stay away from that and do that. And you know again, if you're not particularly clever. Maybe that's the best approach, but it is a little insulting.

Speaker 2: 18:41

Yeah, understood, totally agree. Yeah, and um, fine. And also on this, like for someone who is new to this topic but also very curious so what's a simple way that they can start learning or having conversations about being safe, safely and respectfully?

Speaker 3: 19:02

Well, there's a lot of wonderful books out there and of course my movie, I think is a great way to sort of introduce them to the world. You know, it's a big world. It's like saying I want to travel and then you look at different countries and oh, there's India and there's France and there's Australia. You know, you might want to watch a movie about travel before you figure out what country you want to visit. You know, so sort of educate yourself, read a few few books, watch a few movies to figure out what, what uh, continuing the metaphor what country of kink you want to visit first, and then, you know, read guidebooks about that particular place. You know, if I decide I want to go to france, so I'm going to maybe buy the guidebook on france now and get to know a little bit more about france after having the overview. So, watching my movie, there's a wonderful book called SM 101 by Jay Wiseman. There's a lot of really great books about kink as well.

Speaker 3: 19:55

But I think the documentaries in the movie I'm pretty sure I might be one of the first documentaries to sort of explore this and on there's been documentaries, but I always felt that they were kind of making people look bad. I think this is one of the few documentaries that tries to give a very honest look at it and not try and sensationalize it. In the past, it is very easy to sensationalize. So you know you're making a documentary and you want to sell your documentary to Netflix or something. It's better to make it sensational. Sell your documentary to Netflix or something it's better to make it sensational. I tried to make a much more honest, sincere documentary. That I think is a useful entree for people who are curious and after watching it they could decide if they still are curious and maybe what countries they want to visit.

Speaker 2: 20:42

Got it Lovely. And also from the listener's perspective I'm saying, uh, many listeners, uh may wonder that is kink, just a phrase or a trend. So how would you address that assumption?

Speaker 3: 21:00

we talked about that a little bit earlier. I mean, it's an interest, um, are we going to judge and say that one interest is more valuable than another interest? You know, if somebody likes computers, are they weird? If they like uh, you know making shoes, are they weird? If someone wants to go climb a mountain, are they weird? I mean, we just humans were interested in different things at different times and if we're interested in things, we should explore those things. I mean, again, we have to be safe and we have to know what we're doing. But you know, there's always somebody out there.

Speaker 3: 21:33

I don't know if you like mushrooms, but I always think mushrooms are a great analogy, that you know. Most mushrooms will kill you and there's a lot of people that actually learned about mushrooms and quite like them. But you have to know exactly what you're doing when you go picking mushrooms, let alone eating mushrooms. But you know, some people think it's unusual, some people put it in every dish. You know, what we're interested in is what we're interested in and I don't think we should judge. I think that's one of the biggest things that stop people from being creative, stop people from being truly happy. People is feeling judged, you know. Oh, you shouldn't be interested in that, or you shouldn't think that, or you shouldn't do that. Don't shoot on yourself, you know. Don't shoot on yourself. Just if you're interested, explore it, but don't let yourself get shut down. You have one life. You have one life and you know, live it to the fullest. So many people that life, but so few people seem to live it. And that's what we're talking about here being honest with yourself, learning how to live your life with passion, follow your dreams, follow your ideas, you know, and just do it in a smart, ethical way. And in my mind, there's nothing that everyone should be doing it and everything. You don't have to be kinky if you aren't. You know, some people actually consider that a kink itself, you know, being more traditional. Living a life that people think is the normal life for many people is actually a kink because they find that appealing in some ways, these traditional ideas of how men and women are supposed to interact. Some people live that life as a kink because they find that appealing in some ways, these traditional ideas of how men and women are supposed to interact. Some people live that life as a kink too. So you know, what is it really? We're just living our lives. We're trying to be more authentic, we're trying to be more open, we're trying to be more honest and we're trying to understand ourselves.

Speaker 3: 23:22

I heard it said once there really is only one question, there really is only one story and in all things, and that question is who am I? Because what's really otherwise? The reason I'm talking to you on the podcast or those people are listening, is everyone's trying to figure out who they are and what you know. Who they are, that's it. Every art, music exploration. They're just trying to understand who they are. So to understand that that's the, that is the journey, that is the story that we're all on. Who am I?

Speaker 2: 23:52

exactly, very true, yeah, and um also uh, before we move, like for the listeners who questions how consent and aftercare are handled, how does your film bring light to these aspects?

Speaker 3: 24:07

Well, you see people going through the process of. You know how is this for you. What do you like? Do you have any physical injuries? Do you have any mental problems? Is there anything that's changed since last time that we interacted, just talking? You know how are you feeling today. Did you have you had enough, but did you have breakfast or lunch? Are you feeling good? Did you have you had enough, but did you have breakfast or lunch? Or you know everything feeling good. Do you have any problems? Anything happened recently, just you know getting to know that person and being sure that they're ready to participate. So you know that is how you handle, how you handle consent.

Speaker 3: 24:43

Aftercare is different for different people. Sometimes aftercare is bringing somebody a cup of hot chocolate. Sometimes it's drawing them a warm bath. Sometimes it's just a little conversation. Sometimes it's a cigarette. You know it's. You ask them, ok. So you know we're going to do this, we're going to do this thing. Ok, we've agreed to do this thing. We've done this thing.

Speaker 3: 25:06

But before we do this thing, tell me you know how you like to be taken care of afterwards. You know we're gonna do this intense, crazy thing we've decided on doing. I'm judging when I say crazy, it's not crazy, but this, we did this thing. Uh, and once we're finished doing this thing, how do you want to be taken care of? Like what? What do you need like what? What will make you sort of ready to go back to the regular world?

Speaker 3: 25:31

So you discuss that when you're negotiating, so you get clear consent, and you also, when you're having your negotiations and your discussions, you're already asking them. You know, after we do this thing, you know what do you need to feel good? You know, I think in a vanilla culture sometimes people just go and they shag and then that's it. And you know, I think a lot of people feel kind of empty afterwards because they were maybe wanting a cuddle or they were wanting some conversation or whatever. So everybody's different. So it's good to, before you even do the thing is to ask you know what you need afterwards. What have you learned about yourself that you're going to need afterwards? So discussing the consent and what people know afterwards is already going to put you a thousand times ahead of what most people do in everyday life, exactly exactly, very true, yeah, lovely.

Speaker 2: 26:23

And with this, thank you, max, for joining us today and sharing your profound insights on the world of kink. And definitely your work with TouchKink is changing the way we think about intimacy, trust and the communication. So, for the listeners, always remember that understanding and acceptance are keys to exploring your own desires and the boundaries are keys to exploring your own desires and the boundaries. So, whatever they may be be sure to check out Touch King and join Max on his mission to challenge stereotypes and promote a more open-minded view of human sexuality. So until next time, stay curious, be kind and embrace your pleasure principles. So this is your host, avik, signing off. Thank you so much.

Speaker 3: 27:09

Thank you Cool.