Unlocking Authentic Connections Through Ethical Non-Monogamy - Lauren Hayes

Unlock the secrets of love and connection as we sit down with the brilliant Lauren Hayes, a trailblazing relationship coach who's turning the world of romantic partnerships on its head. Lauren brings her wealth of experience from the ethical non-monogamy (ENM) community, sharing transformative insights that promise to reshape your understanding of relationships. Her book, "For Better or Even Better: Seven Love and Life Lessons from a Non-Monogamist," serves as a guide to crafting unique relationship structures that challenge cultural norms while fostering authentic connections and personal growth. Explore the nuanced world of ENM as Lauren skillfully distinguishes swinging from polyamory, offering a fresh perspective on how non-monogamy can lead to personal happiness and development.

Journey with us into the heart of ENM relationships, where communication reigns supreme. This episode shines a light on the essential role of emotional transparency and vulnerability, encouraging a shift from logistical exchanges to heartfelt dialogues. We venture into the importance of self-expression, urging listeners to embrace their sexual selves amidst society's conflicting messages. As we discuss personal growth within these intricate relationship frameworks, you'll be inspired to prioritize life's simple pleasures over the relentless drive for productivity. Whether you're curious or committed, this conversation promises to be a revelatory experience, packed with wisdom, laughs, and maybe even a few aha moments.

Automate Social Media Posts with Marky
Marky.ai an AI marketing platform that automates campaigns and optimizes strategies for better ROI.

Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.

Chapters

• 0:11 Transformative Relationships
• 15:28 Embracing E&M Relationships for Personal Growth

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:11

Hello and welcome back listeners to the Pleasure Principles podcast with your host, sana. Today we are diving into a topic that's as intriguing as it is transformative Relationships in all their beautiful, messy and evolving glory. Joining us is the dynamic and insightful Lauren Hayes, a relationship coach who's redefining what it means to love and connect Listeners. Lauren specializes in guiding ethically non-monogamous couples yes, we are talking swingers and the E&M curious to build healthy, thriving partnerships. With 19 plus years of marriage and over six years navigating the E&M world herself, lauren doesn't just teach it, she lives it world herself. Lauren doesn't just teach it, she lives it Through her coaching and her book. She's helping couples rewrite the rules of love, intimacy and partnership, no matter how many people are at the table.

Speaker 1: 1:20

So, whether you are monogamous or non-monogamous, or just curious about how to cultivate better relationships, this episode promises to be a blend of wisdom, laughter and maybe a few aha moments. So listeners, buckle up. This once is going to be a wild and wonderful ride on pleasure principles. So, lauren, welcome to the show and it is an absolute honor to have you with us today. Hi, thank you. It's an honor to be here, lauren. What inspired you to specialize in coaching couples exploring ethical non-monogamy, and how did your own journey shape your perspective and how did your own journey, shape your perspective.

Speaker 2: 2:06

Yeah, so how I got into coaching was a little bit of a familiar tale. So during COVID I was really questioning what I wanted to be when I grew up, and coaching or therapy was something I you know. Just personal development and growth and spirituality was something I had always been into in most of my adult life, and so coaching sort of seemed like a natural progression. My husband and I at that time had been in it for a couple of years, maybe two or three years, and you know we're enjoying the community very much. I knew that that was something I really wanted to help others navigate because it is complex, and so I just layered that in with the career change of coaching at that time with the career change of coaching at that time.

Speaker 1: 3:07

That's inspiring. So, Lauren, talking about your book, you discuss the intersection of pleasure and love. So what's one principle that you think can transform any relationship you know, regardless of its structure?

Speaker 2: 3:25

Yeah. So I mean, each one of my chapters is sort of one of those things, so we could go through those really quickly if that's interesting to you, yes, please, okay. So the name of the book is For Better or Even Better. Seven Love and Life Lessons from a Non-Monogamist, and these love and life lessons that I've learned personally are really universal, and you'll get that right away when we go through this list.

Speaker 2: 3:53

So the first chapter is called Create your Own Damn Life, and the idea behind this is that we are the creators of our own lives and are constantly creating our own realities, and so I think choosing non-monogamy was a big one for me. I'd always really kind of gone a different path than most of my family, so I understood this idea already, but when, I think, when we chose non-monogamy because this is so counter to our culture, that was a big one for me. And then, recognizing how much happiness and growth that my husband and I experienced from this, it was just reinforced that learning about you know doing what feels right and in alignment with you, not what others think about it.

Speaker 2: 4:49

Wow, wow, yeah the second chapter is called connection, connection, connection and fun. So and I started that chapter out saying you know, in real estate it's all about location, location, location here, it's all about connection, and this is something in especially the swinging community, but I would say in both and also. Let me take a minute to define some of this for listeners who aren't familiar. So ethical non-monogamy is a broad umbrella term for anyone practicing non-monogamy of any kind.

Speaker 2: 5:25

Then underneath that there's sort of two camps, if you will. There's polyamory, which people are in multiple emotionally committed relationships, and another camp is swinging, which people are more into friendship and sexual relations. So then within those two really anything can go, because the whole point of non-monogamy is you can really just create whatever works for you and your partner or partners, and so these are just kind of the broad terms that I will use for a general understanding. So in the community well, really both is all about connecting, and I would say in the swinging community there's a fear of connection because people aren't looking to fall in love and create these multiple committed relationships. But, and so one of the things that I coach people quite often is not to be afraid of connection, because connection is what we're all looking for as human beings. And even if they don't think they're looking for connection by um participating in non-monogamy, they truly are, because that's what we're all really looking for every day.

Speaker 2: 6:45

And where non-monogamy does operate, then in this world of connection is in a place that our culture has told us doesn't exist. So we operate in a place for swinging especially. We operate in a place between, somewhere between you know, hi, how are you? And I'm in love with you, and then for the polyamorous, they're extending that into the I love you, um, but there are many, many, many levels of friendship and connection that exist prior to I'm in love with you, and so this is the space that we're really operating.

Speaker 2: 7:23

Also, it's kind of a paradox in our culture and the US, because we have kind of a strong casual sex culture in the media, etc.

Speaker 2: 7:33

And on the other end, we have, you know, kind of a religious puritanical culture as well, and so the idea of mixing sex and friendship is confusing in our culture, to say the least. And so this is really the space, though, that we are operating. We're mixing different kinds levels of friendship and connection and sexual adventure, and ultimately, this brings a lot into our lives because of all the connections that we are making, and so, in the world of this is not just for non-monogamous this is something that I think, over time, couples can stop going out as much, stop meeting new people as often and really just get so busy that they're not even connecting with the people that are already in their lives. So this is really the point of the chapter is that, as humans, we love to connect, and so making a point to do so generally is gonna benefit our lives and the quality of our lives and the level of our happiness that's really.

Speaker 1: 8:41

It's very profound, very interesting. And if you would like to share about the Hathas. I know the time is short, but if you can Share what yeah? So, apart from connections and oh, yeah, the other chapters.

Speaker 2: 8:58

So the next chapter is about emotional sovereignty and this is really a concept in relationship and I think it's best defined through definition. So when we're in a partnership, what is not emotionally sovereign is to say you made me feel jealous with the way you were talking with that woman last night or you made me upset. The emotionally sovereign person will say last night when I saw you talking to that woman, I felt really jealous. So it's owning our own emotional experience and not blaming our partners for how we're feeling. Now I think sometimes this can get a little misconstrued, that we are managing it on our own and that is not the truth. The truth is, if we're in a relationship, we're sharing our emotional experience with our partners quite often.

Speaker 2: 10:01

We're just not blaming them or holding them responsible for our emotional state, I'm just sure. So that can make a huge transformation in someone's relationship already, because as humans again, when we are blamed, especially in anger or upset for something, what is our immediate reaction? We're delve into those feelings if we're immediately put on the offensive, so just switching our language, and really there's a belief behind this language too. I am responsible for my emotional experience. My partner is responsible for their own emotional experience. We support each other, we love each other, we listen, but we're not ultimately responsible for them and we're not always trying to fix their upsets. For example, which is something that I really learned and struggled with I had a lot of codependent tendencies in our relationship, feeling responsible for my partner's emotional state, and if he was upset, then I was upset because I must've done something wrong or there must be something I can do to fix it, and so this is something that really surfaced very quickly in our relationship and has probably been one of the most transformative behavior changes for us.

Speaker 2: 11:38

The next chapter is called love yourself. Sorry, love your partner, but love yourself a little bit more, and so this chapter is all about your relationship with yourself and how important and how really that is the most important I'm feeling about myself and the love that I have for myself, then it's very difficult for me to stand in a place of really choosing you as my partner. And yeah, I don't know if there's a lot more to say about that, and just that you know, our relationships with ourselves should always take at least a little bit of priority over our relationship with others, so that we're making a decision that really works for everybody, including us wow, wow.

Speaker 1: 12:48

I mean, each and every chapter is like you know it. It explores multiple layers of the person in that relationship and consequently, you know, influencing or affecting the relationship with their partner in a positive way. So I think it can really be kind of a blueprint to explore relationships in a much healthier way.

Speaker 2: 13:15

Yeah, and this notion that I've talked about a couple of times now, sort of these codependent tendencies in non-monogamy this does get brought up really quickly in a relationship because on the day-to-day you might fall into these patterns and in fact your pet, your partner, might really expect you to be responsible for their emotional state at some point because of the pattern you create when you get into ethical non-monogamy and you're inviting in a whole lot of emotional complexity and also some of these you know relationships and sexual activities that you're getting into very quickly you're going to be like I don't want to do this just for them. Because if you're not getting anything out of this emotional complexity and you know these if you're not interested in having these other relationships and sexual adventures, you know these. If you're not interested in having these other relationships and sexual adventures, then really quickly that's going to get highlighted to you maybe in other areas of your relationship where you're doing other, where you're compelled to do things just because your partner wants to I agree go ahead, go.

Speaker 1: 14:33

So some people would argue that non-monogamous relationships are inherently unstable or unhealthy. So how, how would you respond to that perspective?

Speaker 2: 14:45

I know that's a really big misconception. So a lot of people will think that people get into non-monogamy because they are not happy in their current relationships, because they're looking for somebody else, because they're less committed. And it's an interesting misconception because it's absolutely the opposite of what is true. Who is interested in non-monogamy, they must feel that they are in a very stable and secure relationship. In order to invite in that complexity and emotional complexity that's going to happen, you already need to be feeling emotionally safe.

Speaker 2: 15:28

One of the first things that I talk to my clients about when they come and just are interested in it is I have them get really honest with themselves and answer that question Like, are you doing this to fix something in your current relationship? Because what and I've alluded to this before what non-monogamy will do is it will shine a light on any weaknesses that you do have or unhealthy patterns you do have in your relationship. So if you're going into this already knowing there's something you want to fix, it's only going to highlight that challenge or problem. And so if you haven't dealt with it until now or haven't known how to fix it until now, ethical non-monogamy is not going to be the thing that's going to fix it. That's probably going to highlight it even more. So then, I encourage them to really focus on that issue and not necessarily entering non-monogamy at that time.

Speaker 1: 16:27

Yeah, that's a great answer, Lauren. So how do you guide couples to set boundaries and also communicate effectively in the swinging and the E&M world?

Speaker 2: 16:42

Yeah. So that word communication is really interesting and that actually leads us into the next chapter topic, which is around self-expression. So everyone says when they get into non-monogamy the communication goes up. But I dig into that a little bit deeper and say what is communication? So communication is not just who's going to pick up the kids after school. Today you left the toothpaste cap off the toothpaste again.

Speaker 2: 17:16

Well, this is a form of communication. What people are really talking about is, you know, and it ties into that emotional sovereign piece as well so listening and listening to learn. So if your partner does share something with you, um, then you ask the question back. So there's emotional transparency. This is the piece where we're owning our own emotions. We're looking at our own emotions. Now I've decided I'm going to share with my partner. In that moment you decide to share with your partner.

Speaker 2: 17:48

There's an emotional transparency piece and also an emotional vulnerability piece. So when I say transparency, that's being honest with what you're feeling. Sometimes we will change up how we're feeling a little bit, because we think there's something it might be easier for our partner to hear or we don't want to cause conflict. That's not really being emotionally transparent. That's telling them what they want to hear. Then in the emotional vulnerability piece, you're both being emotionally vulnerable. You're sharing this truth within you with your partner, and you don't know what their reaction is going to be. So in this space we've just shared, this little nugget is sitting out there. Our partner's response could also be emotionally vulnerable. So, you know, in an ideal world they would not react or have or not have necessarily have a hugely emotional reaction to it. But ask more questions or dig into that a little bit more. Now you're both holding this space in this conversation for each other's true reactions. So you could even be like wow, that really upsets me, but I want to know more about that, versus I can't believe you would say something like that and storming out of the room. So that's really the moment, this communication piece, the sharing, the listening in both directions, that when people say their communication increases after E&M or communication brings us closer, that's the kind of communication we're talking about, not just the day-to-day communication, but the heartfelt, emotional sharing and communication.

Speaker 2: 19:47

Wow, yeah, and the self-expression piece is really important in that because you know a lot of people when they're in ethical non-monogamy really do learn and find and learn to use their voice. Because in that first chapter when I said we're creating our own lives, well, the only way you create your own life is if you can let your desires and your wants known. Now, we don't always get what we want in life, but what I often say is we don't always get what we want, but if we don't ask for it for sure, we're not getting it, true, so that's a self-acceptance. The other piece of the self-expression and this will come out in the last chapter also, but it's about sexual self-expression. So again, culturally that can be a very complicated area for people in the U S we have a very puritanical society. Again, a paradox with this, very women are sexualized um culture. So it's a confusing message. It's a lot to navigate for women in that confusion. Some people sort of shut down their emotional selves often, very oftentimes, due to some religious messages about sex being shameful. And you know, I argue that this is a part of us, the sexual side of us. It doesn't have to be shared publicly, but this is something that we need to be acknowledging for ourselves and ideally with our partners as well, and so that will come up again in the seventh chapter. What I want to get to, because of the name of your podcast.

Speaker 2: 21:30

The next chapter, though, in between, is about personal growth and then how we never stop growing as people. We never stop growing as people, and E&M can be a real catalyst for this, because you're always getting into new situations, you're always adding other people. So relationships of any kind friendship to romantic add complexity into our lives and they also bring with it an opportunity for learning. And so that's why being an E&M really starts to feel like the personal growth journey of our lives, because we're always on it. And then the last one is about pleasure, and I think it's very tied into that sexual.

Speaker 2: 22:23

So pleasure can be anything, it doesn't have to be sex, it can be sitting in the sun, it can be reading a book in the afternoon and my whole point around pleasure. There's two points. One we get a lot of, again, culturally, for Americans especially well, not even especially, but this is in contrast to me living in Europe for a while. But you know, pleasure really takes a backseat to being productive and always being productive and not resting. And so pleasure. I'm inviting into the front seat and I'm saying as humans, we need pleasure to live a balanced and healthy life. And then the second sort of more complex conversation around pleasure is sexual pleasure, because again, this can get wrapped up in a lot of um, messaging about not enjoying sex or not enjoying pleasure, and so that is what the chapter is about is consciously choosing and um and consciously enjoying pleasure lovely, lovely lauren.

Speaker 1: 23:47

So before we wrap up, um, I would love to and I'm very sure listeners, if we want to get access to your book and also connect with you explore more of more about your work&M how we can do that.

Speaker 2: 24:03

Yeah, so I would say the easiest place is going to my website, which is swinginglifestylecoachcom. You can sign up for my newsletter there and I'm not a big heavy newsletter sender, but that is definitely where I'll be making announcements. The book is going to be coming out in December, so that's where I will be letting everybody know about that and the book title, at least as of today, as we talked about is for better or even better.

Speaker 2: 24:33

Seven love and life lessons from a non-monogamist. So they can also find me on social media with the same name Swinging Lifestyle Coach. But my website is a real hub of information too. If people just want more education, there are some guides, some free downloadable guides. There's a blog, some resources, so it's a great place for people to start.

Speaker 1: 24:58

Lovely. We'll have all the details mentioned in the show notes and, lauren, thank you so much, first of all, for joining Pleasure Principles and sharing your wisdom, your expertise and your personal journey on the wonderful aspects about E&M pleasure and relationships. So thank you so much for coming on the show. Thank you, it was really nice toM pleasure and relationships.

Speaker 2: 25:21

So thank you so much, thank you, thank you. It's really nice to be here. Thank you.

Speaker 1: 25:25

Listeners. If you are feeling inspired to explore deeper connections, embrace love in all of its forms or simply improve communication in your relationships, lauren's work is a must follow. Be sure to check out her book and also coaching sessions for more transformative insights. You can refer the show notes and, as always, thank you for tuning in. Don't forget to subscribe, share this episode with your friends, your partner, your loved one, and leave us a review. It helps keep the conversation going. Until next time, keep prioritizing your pleasure and living authentically. Thank you.