Redefining Marital Intimacy Through Purposeful Connection - Shellie R Warren

Discover how prioritizing intimacy can transform your marriage into a profound partnership of oneness with the insightful guidance of Shellie R Warren. With over two decades of experience as a marriage life coach and doula, Shellie R Warren brings a unique perspective shaped by her experiences as a child of divorce. Together, we challenge societal norms and religious expectations that often leave couples unprepared, and highlight the often-overlooked significance of sexual connection in marriage. Our conversation redefines intimacy, urging couples to engage with purpose and understanding to uncover the true beauty of marriage.

Join us as we discuss the essential practice of regular relationship check-ins, akin to routine maintenance, and explore the impact of external influences such as porn and sex toys on marital expectations. Shellie R Warren and I tackle the dangers of faking orgasms and stress the importance of cultivating a sacred, private space for intimate connections. We also delve into why comparisons with other relationships can harm your unique bond, and share strategies to preserve intimacy, even suggesting boundaries within the family home. This episode is brimming with valuable insights to help you nurture a thriving, intimate relationship.

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Chapters

• 0:06 Navigating Intimacy in Marriage
• 15:31 Exploring Marriage and Intimacy Nuances

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:06

Welcome listeners to Pleasure Principles podcast, where we are exploring the incredible ways of our thoughts, habits, emotions, as well as sexual wellness in our lives. I'm your host, sana, and together we'll dive into the realms of mental health, pleasure, mindfulness and holistic wellness. Each episode, we bring you expert insights, practical tips and real-life stories, journeys to help you rebuild a healthier mind and a more vibrant life. So, whether you are here to find balance, overcome challenges or simply feel inspired, you are in the right place, listeners, and today on this episode, we are talking about something very, very personal.

Speaker 1: 0:58

Now, marriage can be a beautiful dance, but what happens when the music gets out of sync? For couples grappling with intimacy issues, unmet needs and occasional he said, she said. We are here to shed some light and a little laughter On this episode of the Pleasure Principles podcast. I am going to chat with the dynamic and thought-provoking Shelley R Warren Listeners, she's a writer, three-time author, marriage life coach and doula who, despite never being married herself, has become a trusted guide for couples navigating their most intimate challenges. With Shelly, no topic is off-limits and clarity is guaranteed. So, listeners, let's begin. Shelly, welcome to the show and it's an absolute pleasure having you with us today.

Speaker 2: 1:58

Thank you so much. You said dynamic and I said wow.

Speaker 1: 2:04

Great, great, great, shelly. Um, so before we we uh proceed to the topic, would you like to share a bit about your journey? You know how you got uh into this whole world of uh. You know marriage, couples, intimacy.

Speaker 2: 2:21

I. I think we'll start here because it's probably the most obvious question. I've been working with couples for 20 years now and my niche is reconciling divorces. That's actually what I'm very passionate about. But of course people say how can you counsel people when you've never been married? And I tend to have three responses to that. I'll share two today. One is I am the child of divorce and you'd be amazed the insight that children of divorce have on marriage, just from observation. And then two you know at least here in the States, the stats continue to be that 55% 50 percent of marriage is in a divorce, and for every time you marry again, the divorce rate goes up about 20 more percent. So my running joke is well, it seems like a lot of married people don't know what they're doing either. So let's just all do some wisdom together. So marriage is just. I'm very passionate about it.

Speaker 2: 3:26

I again, because I came from divorce and just saw the breakdown, not once, but twice. My mom's third marriage stuck, my father never married again, and then I just study marriage a lot. Um, I wouldn't necessarily call myself a christian, but I am a huge scriptural person, so I used to spend a lot. Um, I wouldn't necessarily call myself a Christian, but I am a huge scriptural person. So I used to spend a lot of time not just studying marriage but covenant and just how beautiful marriage is from a spiritual perspective. And then that got me into sex and just how beautiful marriage is from a spiritual perspective. And then that just led me to writing articles about it and then counseling people. And now it's gotten to the point that even pastors will refer people to me because I just study it so much.

Speaker 2: 4:13

Stats research. I like talking to couples of all faiths. I think one of the favorite things I've ever heard is actually from an atheist couple. I know. I think one of the favorite things I've ever heard is actually from an atheist couple I know or I met I don't really know them. I interviewed them and in the States the divorce rate among Protestant Christians is like 72%. The divorce rate for atheists is 1%. And when I was talking to this particular couple about it, they said because we don't need God to keep our promises. To this particular couple about it they said because we don't need God to keep our promises, and I just thought that was so profound just the integrity of marriage. So I could go on and on about why I'm so passionate about it, but that's the gist. I just think it's beautiful when it's done right and well and you're given the tools to maintain it. It's just one of the best things going in humanity, in my opinion.

Speaker 1: 5:06

True, true, lovely, lovely. That was such a great explanation. Thank you for sharing your journey and also the amazing insights just from the first question itself. So moving on, sheila, you have been in coaching, you know, for 20, more than 20 years, so what's one surprising lesson you have learned about marriage and intimacy through your coaching?

Speaker 2: 5:36

Most people have no idea why they should prioritize sex in marriage, even though they know they should have sex in marriage. I think it's for layers of reasons. No matter what your religious affiliation is, it tends to be church leaders or if you're Islam, if you're Jewish, they don't really talk about sex very much, right. So you're kind of just fumbling around on your wedding night because nobody really said anything to you other than perhaps don't do it. And then you throw culture in there, and especially in the states, it's a very sexualized culture, but it's a sexualized culture without purpose. Um, people are chasing orgasms, but they're not chasing oneness. So you add culture to also religious ignorance. There's that there's a good chance. Your parents didn't really tell you anything, or enough. So who are you going to learn it from? And then if you were talking to your friends, they don't know what they're talking about either. You know you kind of have two people who don't really understand. They know they should do it, but they don't really get why. And then if the follow-up question would be why? I just believe it's a physical act that represents oneness with your partner in a profound way like nothing else can. And if you look at sex from that angle, you should want to do it as much as possible. If every time you're one with your partner, you spiritually elevate, you're affirmed. Physically, it boosts your self-esteem and confidence. Physically, it boosts your self-esteem and confidence.

Speaker 2: 7:32

One of my favorite couples I saw on a Huffington Post article here years ago. They had been married, I think almost 60 years, and they asked the wife I'm going to edit it a little bit because she cussed, but they asked her so what's the key to your marriage? She said well, I have sex with him, I don't have sex with anybody else. That was so profound, though right, isn't that supposed to be? One of the main things that separates marriage from every other relationship you have is sex. And yet that's one of the things that gets prioritized the least. That's how special sex is. You only do this with one other person and so many people don't prioritize that. So that is the thing that I've learned, like wow, we don't really know why we should be having sex in marriage, so we don't treat it like a special, sacred, prioritized act, and that's unfortunate.

Speaker 1: 8:19

Yeah, I agree with you, shelly. Okay, so how can couples identify and address the invisible barriers that impact intimacy or sex in their relationship? You know, for married couples, of course.

Speaker 2: 8:37

Did you say the bad years? Yeah, what'd you say? Okay, I mean, there's spring, summer, fall and winter. You know over here it's winter. You know winter's coming, it's just going to come, right, it's a season like everything else.

Speaker 2: 9:01

I think what's important and so the way I look at winter, quote unquote for marital intimacy, it could be menopause, hormones changing. We don't even talk enough about something called andropause, which is when men's testosterone drops, which tends to happen around the same time we go through menopause. We just don't talk about that a lot. Um, the seasons that shift maybe it's like empty nesting could be a winner, because you put so much focus on your children that now that the children are out of the house, you have to learn each other all over again. That could be a winner. Um, another winter can be body changing. Um, I know it's so ideal and beautiful to say that people your spouse should love you, no matter what. Attraction's different and sometimes the way we looked on our wedding, that isn't the way we looked 15 years later, right? Um, so that's a winter, or you're not sexually compatible in seasons. One of my closest friends, when she was single, she wasn't really requiring a lot of foreplay. Sex was kind of a sport for her. And then she kind of had a spiritual awakening maybe 10 years into her marriage and she and her husband had really been struggling with that, because he still sees sex the way they were having it when they were dating and she wants a deeper connection, more foreplay, more cuddling, more quality time. He's kind of like who's this one? That can be a winter, and so I would.

Speaker 2: 10:36

I would advise the first thing would be get to the root of what your winter is. Um, don't just assume you're not in the mood or you all are just disconnected. No one just disconnects, even in friendships. We don't just assume you're not in the mood or you are just disconnected. No one just disconnects, even in friendships. We don't just disconnect. There's a reason. So figure out what the reason is.

Speaker 2: 10:54

The next step would be I'm big on taking inventory in marriage. I just heard in an interview I like research. I mentioned that earlier and I was listening to a married YouTuber say it's interesting how we do evaluations in everything but marriage, meaning you do job evaluations annually, kids have to take tests to go to another grade, but for some reason you get married and then you just don't expect people to change or grow or evolve their needs to shift. So once you figured out what your winner is, the next thing would be well, what are your needs now? And then the next thing would be you need to schedule sex. We schedule. I don't know why this is such a controversial topic. You know we schedule everything. All schedules mean is you're prioritizing time and even so, a study I read was couples men and women prefer foreplay to be like 20 to 30 minutes, but actually they're fine with sex being 7 to 13 minutes, the actual act being 7 to 13 minutes. Over here in the States, people spend 2.5 hours a day on social media. You schedule time to be on Instagram. You can find 8 minutes for your partner, really, and it doesn't always have to be romance, rom-com, you know, romantic comedy, soap opera set. You just need to connect. I don't know how deep I can go, but you know, sometimes that's quickies, sometimes that's oral set, sometimes that's cuddling naked. There's a practice called orgasmic meditation. Maybe Google it, because it's kind of its own interview, um, but it's just. It's kind of a form of tantric, but it's really just getting still new with your partner. Just get still. The world is so busy, um.

Speaker 2: 13:04

Another thing I advise for winter couples. I wish I made it up. I did not, but I talk about it all the time. I saw it on Pinterest one time. It's called a sex jar. Have you heard of that before? Oh, no, not at all. Sex jars are great. So you put money, you get a jar and you put money in it every time you have sex. It doesn't have to be a certain amount, you know. It could be a little, it could be coins, it could be bills, and then after six months to a year, you take that money out and you spend it on something together and the running joke is based on how much sex you're having. That might be a luby, or that could be the Italy, you know, but it helps you gauge how you prioritize your sex life.

Speaker 2: 13:53

I think another thing about the winter season is when you sign up to be with one person in a particular way for the rest of your life, boredom will come. That that's just the truth. It just so. I think it's also good to have an annual bucket list, a sex bucket list. What are new things you want to try? What are you curious about? Let's both read some books and share some things that we discovered and put them on a bucket list and check them off.

Speaker 2: 14:30

I think another thing in the winter season is to be okay in the winter season, because the reason why things are called seasons is because they pass. So instead of freaking out, just kind of discuss with your partner like I feel like we're not as intimate as we used to be. Your partner's probably going to be like I agree what you think we should do about that and are you OK with this season, or should should we figure something out? Ps, there is absolutely nothing wrong with going to see a sex therapist, and a sex therapist does not. Is not someone that sleeps with your partner. A sex therapist is not someone that sleeps with your partner. That seemed ridiculous. A sex therapist is just me, who specializes in sexual intimacy, and they're trained in getting to the root of how to make sex better. So you know, I think one of the hardest parts of my job is people waiting until they're ready to get divorced for us to meet. It's like the house is half burned down and you're like come, save my house.

Speaker 2: 15:31

I really think couples should see someone. It's kind of like an oil change. You get your oil change every 3,000 miles. You should probably see someone at least twice a year, because sometimes you assume everything's fine and it's really not, and we're trained to kind of make sure you're fine, like ask specific questions. So that's another tip I would give for the winter season, if you're not able to get out, and how long Shelly is a season before we should be concerned um six months. That's a little bit in six months. And so another study I read is a happy couple, married couple, quote unquote has sex um four times a month. Um, the article actually said once a week, but we know we can't always do that. Sometimes that has to be three times in one week or you know, say one time in on a weekend or really long weekend or whatever. But if it's been six months and that has not happened, then you should probably see someone.

Speaker 1: 16:36

Also, shelly. How do societal norms around sex and relationships help or hurt intimacy? You know, between husbands and wives. You know, of course, with regards to the US, but you know as you interact with couples of other societies or the religions. What's your perspective on that?

Speaker 2: 17:04

Well, one would be what I said earlier about the orgasms versus oneness In marriage. You should prioritize the oneness part. Orgasms to me is like the icing on the cake, not the cake, the prioritizing time to be intimate with the person I promised to be with for the rest of my life. That's the point of set. And then orgasms are a reflection of. And then orgasms are a reflection of technique, timing, communication. So of course they're relevant, but they shouldn't be the biggest priority. Society tells us otherwise.

Speaker 2: 17:44

I think another issue is that we bring so many other additives into sex porn, sex toys. I get asked about sex toys a lot. I'm not anti-sex toy, but I will say this they're kind of feeding a monster out here, you know, because some of these rabbits and stuff can give women orgasms in two minutes. That's just not realistic about what a human male body can do. So you start expecting your partner to do what these toys can do, and therein lies a disconnect. Right, faking orgasms. I can't believe how much society encourages that and the fact that the word fake is in it should let us discourage that. You know, fake is disingenuous and lying. So please don't fake orgasm with your partner. And here's what's interesting One in four men and one in four women do it. Men do it as much as we do, and oftentimes in marriage for the same reason. Don't want to hurt your partner's feelings, either because they're not pleasing you or well, that's the biggest point you're not pleased. I don't want to hurt you, so I'll act like this is like I'm enjoying it, but I'm not. How could that not be a disconnect? Um, porn, oh, it's becoming more and more. I used to tour with a organization that got people out of the industry and I did that for nine years. Porn is always going to be a controversial topic indeed, but there's plenty of studies to support like one it, if you, if you watch it regularly, it affects your brain like a drug, that, and like a real drug, like non-marijuana, like coke and heroin, which means the high you'll crash, the high you'll crash.

Speaker 2: 19:45

Um, we had, we had come to know some porn. I call them porn actors. I prefer that over porn stars. We had come to know some porn actors and them porn actors. I prefer that over porn stars. We had come to know some porn actors and those people. A lot of times they can't stand each other.

Speaker 2: 19:59

I'm talking about the ones you're watching on the screen like, like, love each other. Um, because they don't like what they're doing and what it's brought them to. It's also heavily edited. You know, if you're watching these days you can watch porn, you know, on loop, for free. So you're watching a couple go at it for 30 minutes. Um, they've edited and looped that, believe that? And so to come into a bedroom expecting your partner to act like actors are acting, that isn't a problematic. So are all the romance films that we like to watch too. You know, um, that's his own form of porn. You know, one definite porn is just anything in an excess. So, and you know, another um unsung norm is talking too much to other people about their sex life and comparing your sex life to their sex life.

Speaker 2: 21:01

That really affects really affects the act of sex. We all do the same way, but we're all individuals, so the needs that we have, the interests that we have, are all very different. You start comparing yourself to what your girlfriend told you is happening over there. You're actually bringing her energy into your bedroom. You're actually kind of violating the space because it should only be you and your partner. That's it. I'm so serious about that.

Speaker 2: 21:35

Excuse me that my friends kind of laugh at me my married friends, a lot of them because they think I'm a little over the top. I don't even go and marry people's better um period, even if they're like come in here while I get dressed or come in here while I pick something up. And the main reason why I don't is I feel like that's the one room of the house that should just be yours. Married people have to share so much of their lives, their time, their resources. It'd be nice if there's one space that's just your space. So, even as a doula, right, I get that when babies they got to be in their pack and clay or their co-sleeper. But I encourage people to get them out of the room as soon as possible because it's intimate space. You know you'll look up and that baby's five years old, still in a bed. That's not helping your sex life at all. So those are just some of the norms that come to my mind.

Speaker 1: 22:33

Wow, really hard hitting, really hard hitting and very useful. Shelley, thank you. Also, before we wrap up, you know I know 30 minutes is not. It does not go fast, it does, because there's so much, so much to explore, but we don't give much importance to all these. You know very personal but very crucial aspects. Uh, that's exactly. You know the the whole essence of life. But what do you say to someone who argues that lived experience is more important than theory in understanding marital challenges?

Speaker 2: 23:15

I don't think I understood the question. Can you repeat it?

Speaker 1: 23:20

Yeah, sure, so so as, although you are not married, but you understand the balance, the, the nuances, you know with your research, with your uh, you know background. So what can you say to someone who argues that lived experience is more important than fury in understanding marital challenges?

Speaker 2: 23:44

oh, shout out to my mother um, I think she's the author of this quote too Discernment prevents experience from being your teacher. We don't have to live everything to learn some things. You know, a part of the reason why I'm not still married is because of how much I've studied marriage. I hold it in a far higher esteem and it's funny because I have married people that hold me accountable to what I do. I'm not just out here winging it. You know, and I'm really grateful that some of the people in my world have been married 35, you know, 40 years at this point because I'm 50. And they even say, like Shelly, if we had known some of the stuff that you knew, quite frankly we don't even know if we would have picked the partner we picked. We didn't know any of this stuff, and so I'm just like as aggressive as I am.

Speaker 2: 24:42

I'm not big on the term happy marriage. I'm bigger on healthy marriage, habits and emotions, and children want to be happy all the time. Adults should want to be healthy all the time. Adults should want to be healthy all the time, and sometimes what makes us healthy doesn't always make us happy. You know, I'm 50, my metabolism is changed, so I have to exercise more than I ever have, and no one's happy about it. It's healthy, though, you know. So the same thing for marriage, or certain things we have to put into practice, and so I don't get why someone would say to say a single never been married before person, you need to live some things before you can advise for an elf, as opposed to we'll be in three failed divorces and then we'll listen to you, you know like. Aren't you happier that I avoided a failed marriage as opposed to going through a failed marriage and then speaking on regret as opposed to speaking with intention?

Speaker 1: 25:44

There's a difference. Yeah, lovely, lovely, shelly. Well, thank you so much for this. Really, really enlightening and really insightful. Insightful with lots of research, you know. I can see that. So I'm very sure listeners also will be able to realize for this conversation, shelly, and if they wish to connect with you and explore more about the work you are doing, how they can do that.

Speaker 2: 26:13

Boy, oh boy. So, plot twist, I don't do social media, also a meeting for another time. But my email address is M-I-S-S-N-O-S-I-P-H-O. At Gmail it's pronounced Ms Nocebo. I have family in South Africa, so that's my Zubu name, so that's where that comes from. But yes, write me at any time. Often what people will do is ask me just for resource content, and I have a ton of resource content. I just think if I was going to close out with anything, just nothing will feed you every part of you physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually, relationally, like sex world. Nothing, nothing. It's incomparable. Why would you not prioritize that?

Speaker 1: 27:13

comparable. Why would you not prioritize that? Great, great Shadi. Thank you so much. We have the details mentioned in the show notes and listeners. Thank you to all of you for joining us on Pleasure Principles, where today we explore the transformative power of connection, intimacy and self-discovery as well, and we hope today's conversation sparked new ideas and inspired you to embrace pleasure as a fundamental part of your life. If you loved what you heard, don't forget to subscribe, leave a review and share this episode with someone who deserves a little extra joy. Until next time, remember, remember your pleasure is your power, so own it, celebrate it and let it guide you to deeper fulfillment. Bye.