Enhancing Intimacy and Connection Through Cultural Exploration and Authentic Communication - Roula Abou Haidar

Explore the transformative art of communication with the inspiring Roula Abou Haidar, as she shares her deeply personal journey from Lebanon to Europe. Discover how cultural influences shape our ways of connecting and the profound lessons she learned from navigating communication barriers within her marriage. We delve into the power of vulnerability, the essential role of trust, and practical advice for reigniting the spark in relationships. Roula Abou Haidar's story is a testament to how opening up and addressing deep-seated communication patterns can lay the groundwork for genuine intimacy and growth in personal bonds.

This episode also embraces the broader cultural narratives that impact our relationships. Join us as we challenge traditional barriers, drawing insights from diverse backgrounds and exploring how gender roles can shape our interaction styles. With the insights from special guest Roula Abou Haidar, we'll uncover the beauty found in everyday moments of connection, emphasizing that communication isn't just about the grand gestures. It's about fostering a life filled with curiosity, pleasure, and meaningful exchanges. Tune in to learn how refining your communication skills can not only enhance your relationships but also enrich your connection with the world around you.

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Chapters

• 0:04 Navigating Intimacy Through Communication
• 14:02 Enhancing Communication for Stronger Relationships
• 20:18 Embracing Communication for Deeper Connections

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:04

Hey everyone, welcome back to Pleasure Principles, the podcast where we explore the transmittive power of connection, intimacy and, of course, the unspoken truths about the human experiences. So today we are delving into a topic that I mean I know many of you will resonate with how honest and daily communication can elevate not just your relationship but your very sense of self as well. So our guest today is the incredible Rola Abu Haitham. So welcome to the show, rola.

Speaker 2: 0:41

Thank you so much for having me.

Speaker 1: 0:44

Perfect, you're welcome. So before we start our conversation today, I'd quickly love to introduce you to all of our listeners. Dear listeners, rola, her story is nothing sort of mesmerizing, I'd say. She grew up amidst the vivid tapestry of life in Lebanon, surrounded by both the beauty of love and the devastation of war, from sunbathing between tanks to building a new life in Europe. She has navigated some of the most complex emotional terrains imaginable, I would say. So her journey of self-discovery, courage and the resilience has shaped her unique perspective on the connection, intimacy and the love. And and I have to say like wow, I do have questions for her. So, uh, yeah, so.

Speaker 2: 1:40

So we should take your intro and put it on my podcast.

Speaker 1: 1:46

Anytime. So definitely I'll welcome you to the show and I can't wait to start discussing about this topic, which is very simple yet profound. So communication is at the heart of every connection that we build. But in your experience, having lived in two different cultures, how has your approach to the communication evolved over the years?

Speaker 2: 2:17

That's an excellent question, having been growing up in a culture where society has a big control over what you do and what you say. It's a culture it's a Middle Eastern culture where you are taught people pleasing from the moment you start learning how to talk. Do not upset others. Say the things that others would like to hear. Oh, your uncle is here, come and say hi, even if you don't like your uncle, you really don't want to say hi. We grow up learning people-pleasing. This means becoming an adult people-pleasing. Come with us until we discover.

Speaker 2: 2:57

But this is not right, this is not what I want. This communication is not getting me anywhere. I'm giving, giving, giving, but I'm not getting anything. We didn't learn how to ask for what we want, leaving the cultural Middle Eastern society, which was, for me, a relief because I really wanted to break from these societal expectations. And when I say this, people think oh, she wants her freedom, she wants to live her life, she wants to date boys and do all this crazy stuff which she's not. I want to feel like in my conversation, in my communication I'm the equal to the other.

Speaker 1: 3:42

I don't like it.

Speaker 2: 3:43

Right, it's like you want to have a two way conversation. And moving to the Netherlands, I moved with my ex. He's Dutch. I met him in the Netherlands. We had mainly our divorce was because of communication. We both have our traumas and we both have not learned how to talk, ask for what we want, listen to the other. And this made me discover yes, I'm from the Middle East and he is from Western Europe, but we both have really bad communication skills. And this is where my journey in exploring the right way of communication have started, regretfully, with a divorce, but thankfully with it too.

Speaker 1: 4:35

Wow. So, amin, I just wanted to ask was there a moment when you realized that it's important in creating the intimacy?

Speaker 2: 4:45

Yes, this is something I have learned in the past 12 years. What changes is that? We as partners? We both have to be willing to learn and go through this painful process. It's not a process of a day or two. It's not a promise you make and then you continuously break and apologize for it. It's hard work and you know if you are, in your daily life, annoyed and irritated about everything going on around you and not able to talk to your partner about it.

Speaker 2: 5:21

So how can you be intimate? So intimacy basically not basically truly is a lie. You're faking your intimacy. Why an hour ago you were irritated and annoyed by each other and couldn't tell the one another why? Because one gets his ego offended and the other one feels not heard, and I'm not saying which one, it's a role play. Depending on the issue of the communication, this feeling arise and this is where, in the past 12 years, my husband and I have been working really hard on learning the skills of communication to a benefit, and now we're really seeing. It took us 10, 12 years to start enjoying the fruit of this communication. It's not perfect, but now we know how to deal with it.

Speaker 1: 6:17

I understand, and so you also mentioned about the safety in the communication. So for many who are sharing the fantasies, sexual or otherwise, feels like stepping into a high where without a net. So what advice would you give to someone who wants to create that sense of trust with their partner but doesn't know where to start?

Speaker 2: 6:47

Correct? That's also an excellent question. As I mentioned before, the work on the communication should start on the day-to-day life, on how we feel, why we are turning in circles. This argument is not getting to an end or it's repeating. The first hard work is on these kind of communications, because to start talking about intimacy and our sexual connection, our fantasies, what we like and how we want to do it, this will come after the communication has become stronger. On day to day it involves exercises to do together, it involves coaching and a lot of vulnerability, you know. And then what I think works best is to start having this connection, intimate connection, conversations outside of the house, when on a walk or in a restaurant or watching a movie. The best way to start is start remembering why the couples are together in the first place, what attracted us to each other, you know. Go back memory lane with these hot, beautiful memories in the beginning. This will help bring the rest Now, feeling safe and sharing this communication.

Speaker 2: 8:11

It means that both parties have to put their guards down and trust each other, that when I'm telling you about my needs and my desires, it doesn't mean you're not enough. It means you don't know what I like, because we're two different persons. It means I'm asking you to give me what I want so that we can elevate our intimacy to the next level together. The easy way is when people get attracted to other persons outside their relationship. That's the easy way because they think, oh, we've been together for so long and we don't have any more of this passionate relationship. And then they start looking outside. I'm not saying everyone, it is something that we consider in difficult times and this is not true. The real issue is the communication. The second thing to enjoy life is to start opening up to each other.

Speaker 1: 9:19

Exactly, that's very true. I love that. It's not always about the fantasy itself, but about being seen and accepted for who. You are also right.

Speaker 2: 9:32

Absolutely being accepted, because you know, if you want to be your authentic and vulnerable self in your life as a person, why would you lie about your sexual desire? Life as a person, why would you lie about your sexual desire? And if your sexual desire is not accepted, then you have to reconsider. Is this?

Speaker 1: 9:53

life I want to live.

Speaker 2: 9:54

If this I want to continue, because you know, I'm telling you I'm not encouraging divorce, I'm not encouraging people to break up One day after they've done the hard work and it still doesn't work, yeah, then you've done it all and other options are to explore. First, let's do the hard work. That is breaking through this ego, this defensiveness, but it's not in changing the other, it's in improving ourselves.

Speaker 1: 10:25

Exactly exactly. And also there's one uh tricky thing like uh, what about when two people's fantasies and the emotional needs feel the worlds apart? So how do you navigate that gap without like either of the person feeling invalidated?

Speaker 2: 10:47

First, let's say, let the couple put their cards open and then, when they open their cards, if they think they can help each other find a common ground, work towards something that satisfy both of them. This is where they need to start. If the gap is very big that no one of them is willing to take that step into the middle ground, it means their issue is bigger than just not wanting the same thing. It means they have to really think do we fit as a couple together? It opens up a lot of conversations and it's scary. It's not easy to put your cards open and say I like this and I like that, and these are all intimate sexual conversations. It's not easy. We're not used to talk about these things.

Speaker 1: 11:45

Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. It's not easy, we're not used to talk about these things. Yeah, yeah, exactly exactly, and and and also. That brings one of uh, one of the section like um, or, or, I'd say it's a kind of another layer like cultural expectations. So, um, do you have experienced such, uh, contrasting walls? So what, according to you? I, I mean, how do cultural narratives about sexuality and intimacy influence how we communicate?

Speaker 2: 12:13

Stop asking me lovely questions, because this episode can take very long. Ironically, what I have discovered. Let's take the Middle Eastern culture. You only have sex when you get married and everything around it until you get married a lot of talks about sex, jokes. The whole vibe is very sexual in Arab countries.

Speaker 2: 12:41

And then I came to Europe. There is, I mean, not anymore. I think now it's time to go back a little bit to some sexual liberation, in my opinion. But when I came here 24 years ago to the Netherlands, I was amazed by how people feel free to live their sexual life and, what shocked me more, they don't talk about it.

Speaker 2: 13:03

The jokes are boring because I'm used to sexy jokes. So if I make a sexy joke, I used to feel like everyone is looking at me, thinking that I have some attention behind it, and this contrast is incredibly striking. You know, it's a culture where you get married and then you enjoy sex and a culture where you enjoy sex without getting married, and yet the communication is so different. What I found for myself and what I have taught myself and hoping to teach my children I'm teaching them, but they're in difficult age and to spread the word around me is that no matter where we come from. The cultural differences are not that far from each other, and it's really funny that I'm the person who's from the Middle East feel more liberated to talk about sex than a person from Europe. Why we all should be able to communicate. It reduces so much frustration and miscommunication. We're lost in translation.

Speaker 1: 14:10

If you want to say no, no, definitely, I totally agree this, because, uh, cultural differences are definitely there and uh, so, even if you take an example of india, it's it's the same what you mentioned. It's the same. Like here also, uh, the problem of communication is definitely there. Problem of communication is definitely there and uh, even uh, because india is a very traditional uh country.

Speaker 1: 14:40

So they, it believes that again, the same belief it's like uh, I mean it's a belief is definitely that I expect everything but uh, apart from that, there is a taboo as well, like something is set for something, uh, for some period, for some time, uh, or uh, this shouldn't be uh, the time for right now. So everything I believe we as a human being we have, we have created some boundaries or some policies or the laws by ourselves that we want our generation or the next generation also to follow the same. So, which means, like you cannot do sex before marriage, you cannot enjoy. So those are again, these are the taboo things. And if both the person is liking the thing, if both the person have a good communication that's very rare.

Speaker 2: 15:46

It tells you something from what you're saying. It's so true. I recognize so much in what you're saying. To tell you from a personal experience I couldn't understand growing up in the Arabic culture is that girls are taught to become wives and the boys are taught to enjoy life. I couldn't accept that. Only when I what if I don't get married? It means like I will never know what sex is. If I don't get married and we have the prime age, you know, when we have children, life becomes so complicated and enjoying it before and after, we're not taught how to do this Such a precious thing when it's done correctly. I'm also not fostering that. Go out there and I mean, if you want to everyone is free to do what they want.

Speaker 2: 16:48

Yeah, um, it's just starting with. A good communication will lead to better intimacy from a young age exactly, I totally agree on this.

Speaker 1: 16:58

Yes, definitely so. Uh, uh, one more, one more, uh, one more. Thing is coming to my mind, like if someone who is listening right now, if someone feel stuck maybe in the communication or maybe in expressing their desires or the fears as well, so what would you tell them to help them to take that first step towards breaking that silence?

Speaker 2: 17:25

yes, Okay, I'm taking you somewhere, but I'm bringing you back to this topic.

Speaker 2: 17:30

Okay sure, all right. I was a finance manager for many, many years and every year we have to put down our goals and they say, okay, there is. Every year. We have to choose a course, something to elevate our skills, to get better at something, to get better at something, and we do this. In addition to that, we have workshops, coaching sessions at work to become better at our job, to communicate better, become better managers everything to get the best out of us.

Speaker 2: 18:03

We come home we're stuck in our same habits. We don't want to grow, we don't want to learn, we don't want to seek people who are experienced and able to help us get out of this terrible circle. We turn in in our relationship and communication. Why? Why our daily life is different than work. On the contrary, work we will leave it, we will change career, but these skills will take them with us In our relationship.

Speaker 2: 18:35

When people feel stuck, it's because they tried it. They can't save each other anymore If they're having the same argument over and over again. If one of them feel offended, if they get defensive a lot of ego going on this means it's time to ask for help. It's not something we can do by ourselves. It's like any other discussion, or when you have a problem with your landlord, you go to the lawyer. Why we don't do this in our relationship? Why we just think, no, I can solve it and this is how we should do it. We don't do this in our relationship. Why we just think, no, I can save, I can solve it and this is how we should do it. No, we don't want help. I don't understand that, and I wish that persons who are stuck will also realize, and you know what's the best thing of this, avig, they don't even have to go to coaching. There are wonderful podcasts out there that help couples elevate their intimacy, communication, day-to-day life, their future, and that's for free. Start there, listen to pleasure principles, and then you will get unstuck.

Speaker 1: 19:46

Yes, thank you.

Speaker 2: 19:50

Yes, really, it's hard work. It's not a joke, it's a hard work. But everything if you want to be good at it's hard work. And can you imagine, when couples do this hard work, how amazing their communication will be with their children, with the people around them?

Speaker 1: 20:07

it reflects positivity everywhere very true, very true, yeah, exactly so.

Speaker 1: 20:18

I definitely wanted to go on and on, but because of the time constraint, we have to say, I mean, thank you to everyone, and thank you to Rolof, because I can't thank you enough for sharing your heart, your wisdom and your incredible journey with us today.

Speaker 1: 20:36

Though it's a small tenure today, today's episode, but it's really great, it's really helpful and, for all the listeners who are listening right now, I hope this conversation has inspired you to open up those lines of the communication, whether it's with your partner, with your friend or even with yourself. So always remember that pleasure is not just about that, the kind of grand gestures or maybe the fantasies we create. It's all about a little connection that we build daily. So if you enjoyed today's episode, then do not forget to like, subscribe and share with your friends, family or someone who want to listen to this and, most importantly, keep the conversation going with yourself and the one whom you love. So, until, take care, stay curious and let the pleasure guide your principles. So, with this, thank you so much. Thank you very much for having me.