Healing Trust and Intimacy After Betrayal Through Individual Recovery and Safe Vulnerability - Andrea Epting

Renowned expert Andrea Epting joins us on Pleasure Principles to explore the heart-rending journey of healing intimacy after betrayal. With nearly two decades of experience in mental health and sexual wellness, Andrea shares profound insights into the complex recovery paths couples may face when trust is shattered. You'll gain a deep understanding of the non-linear nature of healing and the importance of individual recovery before progressing to couples therapy. Listen as we uncover the transformative potential of addressing deep-seated wounds while navigating the challenging terrain of betrayal, particularly when compounded by cycles of abuse or addiction.

Together, Andrea and I dissect the intricate process of rebuilding trust and intimacy, especially in relationships grappling with sexual dysfunction and compulsive behaviors. We stress the significance of communication, holding space for emotions, and safe vulnerability exploration. Discover practical techniques for initiating intimacy and explore the intersection of sexual compulsivity and betrayal. With a typical recovery timeline of 18 to 24 months, we also delve into educating partners about the neuroscience of trauma and addiction. Concluding with a message of courage and compassion, this episode is a beacon of hope and connection for anyone facing these challenges. Don't miss Andrea's podcast, "Direct Impact," and the resources from Wise Mind Enterprises for further exploration.

Reach out to Andrea: Andrea Epting's Website
Check out her courses: lightninginabottle.biz/courses 

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Chapters

• 0:08 Navigating Intimacy After Betrayal
• 9:46 Rebuilding Trust and Intimacy After Betrayal
• 20:30 Embracing Intimacy Through Connection

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:08

Hey, beautiful listeners, welcome back to Pleasure Principles. I'm your host, havik, and today we are diving into a topic that strikes at the very heart of relationships intimacy after betrayal. Intimacy after betrayal. So, whether you have experienced it yourself or have been the soldier for a friend in pain, or navigating the aftermath of betrayal, is no easy feat, but here's the silver lining, and it's also an opportunity for incredible growth, healing and guess even rediscovering passion. So joining me today is someone whose wisdom and expertise in this area is absolutely unparalleled Andrea Ting. So welcome to the show, andrea.

Speaker 2: 0:59

Thank you for having me. I'm thrilled to be here.

Speaker 1: 1:02

Lovely, lovely. So, andrea, before we start our conversation, I'd quickly love to introduce you to all of our listeners. Dear listeners, andrea is a powerhouse in the field of mental health and sexual wellness. So, with nearly two decades of experience as a certified sex therapist, trauma specialist and so much more therapist trauma specialist and so much more she's helped countless couples rebuild intimacy, resolve the deep-seated trauma and reignite the spark in their relationships. So Andrea is also the founder of Wise Mind Enterprises and the host of the Direct Impact podcast, which I highly recommend you check out, and also do not forget to subscribe to Pleasure Principles as well. So, andrea, I'm so much thrilled to have you here today. Welcome to the show.

Speaker 2: 1:59

Well, thank you for having me.

Speaker 1: 2:02

Lovely, lovely. So, andrea, like when betrayal happens in a relationship, it's like the ground shifts beneath you right? So what does? The initial stage of healing typically look like for the couples who's uh who choose to recommit to each other after such a breach of trust.

Speaker 2: 2:26

Yeah Well, you know it's going to be different in every relationship, situation and scenario, because the healing begins with the individual and then at some point it becomes appropriate and apparent that both nervous systems can be in the same space and begin to heal together, and that is a process. But post-betrayal again, depending on, is it a one-time discovery and disclosure or is it staggered? Has this been happening over decades? Has there been a cycle of abuse involved in this pattern? All of that, those are all questions that we take into consideration when we look at the recovery process, because betrayal trauma is one of the deepest wounds that we'll ever experience as human beings.

Speaker 1: 3:19

Exactly, exactly. And so how do you help couples navigate those raw and painful emotions, while also staying committed to rebuilding the relationship?

Speaker 2: 3:30

it and their nervous system is definitely still in the throes of it, whether they're still being, you know, they're still finding out new information, but just being sometimes under the same roof is it's very hard to heal.

Speaker 2: 3:53

So one of the first things that we do is we ask people not to make decisions right away but take time to pause and heal. If they are in a safe a physically safe environment and do the trauma recovery work that is required for them to make wise-minded and grounded decisions about the future of a relationship, come to terms with what has happened to us, go into experiencing the grief and the loss, and then you can start to look at issues of compatibility in the future of the relationship. And it depends on the betrayed partner's recovery process, but also on, you know, whether they were in an addicted relationship. So maybe you know their partner has been in the throes of sexual compulsivity or something like that gambling, drinking, drugging, whatever it is. You know. We just we want to make sure that they are safe and their partners are also on a road to recovery, because it looks different if you've got two parties healing versus one.

Speaker 1: 5:03

Oh, okay, yeah, and and so on. This definitely I love to mention. I mean, this is really powerful. I I think it's important for people to hear that, um, healing isn't just, uh, linear. It's definitely messy, but the growth, on the other hand, other other side, can be transformative. So, yeah, Huge, huge.

Speaker 2: 5:24

But timing is everything and a lot of partners want to do couples work before it is healthy or safe to do that, before it's even therapeutically indicated or beneficial, and so we really do try to help people effectively navigate the waters post-betrayal and early recovery. So that is part of the process, what we do here at my private practice, which is called Resolve Strategies Inc. We really work with both parties to ensure that they are navigating things effectively and initiating things at the right time so that there can be effective healing and growth and hopefully, you know, reconciliation and you're right at the other end of that.

Speaker 1: 6:14

There is so much excitement and beauty and adventure and newness so that that's obviously the goal yeah, exactly, and also, like I mean, this definitely often damages, uh, not just trust, but also about the sense of self-worth as well. So how does um, I mean, how does the individual healing play into the process of rebuilding intimacy as a couple?

Speaker 2: 6:45

Yeah, and so I started with you know, first, you are in shock oftentimes, but we really need to like go into addressing, like that early stage of denial and shock and making sure that they're able to exit the cycle and exit the pattern long enough to initiate change.

Speaker 2: 7:10

So a lot of people, you know they stay in this toxic cycle and this toxic pattern.

Speaker 2: 7:14

So, whether it's a therapeutic separation which has nothing, by the way, to do with illegal separation or a divorce or anything like that, but a therapeutic separation to give, hopefully, way to healing right, so that could be part of the early stages, which is boundaries and sometimes space to heal, and then allowing for the emotion to emerge, the anger, the grief, the loss, the gosh, the loss of investment comes up a lot.

Speaker 2: 7:48

I've invested so much time and so much energy and so many resources and I've given and I've given, and it's quite important for people to feel all of those big emotions because they provide intelligence and they provide information on next steps forward for their own healing as they come to a space where they can start to really work with their partner right. And of course, as I mentioned before, it depends on their partner's path as well. But I think that grief and that loss is something people really want to avoid and skip over and unfortunately it just. It breeds bitterness and resentment and it does not lend itself to healing from post-traumatic stress that comes from complex trauma if you do not grieve the losses. So I think that's where we like to start is safety boundaries, grief, loss, emotion and understanding, attachment, wounds and things of that nature.

Speaker 1: 8:54

Exactly, exactly. That really hits home. It's almost like you can't fully show up for someone until you have begun to reclaim yourself.

Speaker 2: 9:07

That's right Because, like you said, you lose yourself as part of the process of betrayal. You lose touch with your, you lose trust with your gut instincts, your real big emotions that give you that information. You lose self-worth and dignity. I mean that comes up in my betrayed partners groups all the time is I have lost dignity and self-respect and connection with my body, connection with my sexuality. All of these things are so important to address and try to re-engage.

Speaker 1: 9:44

Exactly, Exactly true. And also about vulnerability. We often hear this word very often. So what's the key to intimacy? But can feel so terrifying after the trust has broken. So what do you say? How can couples begin to rebuild that vulnerability without feeling like they are putting themselves at risk again and all?

Speaker 2: 10:13

Yeah, yeah. Well, I always say, or I like to say, I'm cautious when I say it.

Speaker 2: 10:20

But trust is a choice. It is a choice that we make every single day and it is very challenging that we make every single day and it is very challenging Some. You know it's harder for some than others, especially if you have attachment wounds and unhealthy attachment from major caregivers that came into this relationship. Maybe trust was never easy. So you know just, we take into consideration you know again, the origin story of someone's resistance to intimacy. Right, and their previous betrayals, because oftentimes there's a bunch of betrayals that preceded an intimacy betrayal or a romantic betrayal. So we definitely want to take inventory of everything that went into that. Yeah, okay.

Speaker 1: 11:16

So, anne, any practical techniques or maybe the exercises you recommend for couples to safely explore vulnerability together?

Speaker 2: 11:27

Yeah, oh my gosh, yes. So I want to first say that again I go back to like timing being very important. So it's important that the betrayed partner is kind of driving the train here, and sometimes they have to do the uncomfortable thing of initiation, and so oftentimes it is the responsibility, early on, post-betrayal, for the betrayed partner to start initiating, both intimacy and sex, and they are two separate things. And it starts with intimacy. Can y'all hold space for each other's big emotions? Can y'all hold space without each other's big emotions? Can y'all hold space without getting defensive and angry, right? Can you, you know, really be there for each other, express needs, communicate well? Can you give and receive outside of the bedroom? Before you start both giving and receiving inside the bedroom, are y'all communicating well, which has to come into the bedroom?

Speaker 2: 12:36

So for the partner, who's maybe a recovering addict or someone who has, you know, committed some type of infidelity, it's important that they're asking is this okay, is this okay, is this comfortable, you know? And giving both parties permission to say you know, my desire was to initiate tonight. My desire was X, y and Z, and we just weren't able to tonight. So it's like giving a lot of grace and a lot of love and knowing that this is quite the process. But when you've got both partners that are working towards a really a real recovery process, it is beautiful the way, this beautiful new dance that they create around sexuality, around communication, around intimacy, and you know it's, it's huge.

Speaker 2: 13:28

And for the the first time, they're starting to ask these questions about likes and dislikes and interests, and you know, what do they want to bring into the bedroom? What are things that really turn them on? What are things that excite them? What are the things that they love about each other? What were the things that they noticed initially and what are the things they've grown to love over time? I mean, my, my gosh, it is powerful. I will say that most of them report like this is the first time. This isn't something we're rekindling, it's uncharted territory, yeah.

Speaker 1: 14:02

Exactly Understood. And also you specialize in addressing the sexual dysfunction and compulsive behavior as well. That's right. So how do these issues intersect with the betrayal? I mean, what can couples do to break those destructive cycles? What can couples do to break those destructive cycles?

Speaker 2: 14:25

Yeah, so for your audience, what I most commonly see walk through the door is that we've got a recent discovery and usually there is a betrayed partner and there is an active addict who is seeking early recovery and so they both have their recovery process to address and go into. So that's typically what we see is somebody with a behavioral addiction, usually sexual compulsivity or some other behavioral addiction that has caused a lot of pain and suffering and betrayal in the relationship. Essentially, when we first meet people, their relationship or marriage has just blown to smithereens and so it takes about 18 to 24 months for someone to get really, really rooted and grounded in their recovery process. That's both for the betrayed partner and for the recovering addict. But when you're looking at about six and nine and 12 months, they have started to re-engage, not just, you know, with good communication and care. They've started expressing needs and the trust has rebuilt. They really start to explore for the first time the bedroom and that is so exciting, it's so important and reconciliation for a lot of couples it really is on the table.

Speaker 2: 16:01

I mean sometimes, and it's also extremely healthy, is part of the recovery process and you've got two independent, emotionally independent nervous systems that are all healthy. Sometimes they look at each other and they're like, yeah, I don't think we're compatible, I don't see this being a viable relationship moving forward. And that's fine too. They've discovered themselves. But oftentimes, you know, people do turn towards each other and they see what they fell in love with and they can get excited about the reconciliation process and building a relationship forward.

Speaker 1: 16:38

Yeah, yeah, and also like how important is it for the partners to educate themselves on neuroscience of trauma and the intimacy?

Speaker 2: 16:51

I think it's important for their own healing and at first, when they engage that material, they make it all about the partner who has wounded them.

Speaker 2: 17:02

So we are very careful again about how we approach that topic because it's, I think, important for all of us to understand trauma, to understand how addiction develops and forms.

Speaker 2: 17:17

It is so common. It is so common and we need to understand that it is the dis-ease or the disease that has caused the betrayal and caused the wound and the injury, not the person, and so that's a really tough separation. We work really hard at that, to make sure partners know that it is the disease, and that's really hard to accept at first for a lot of people. We work on that and then eventually, when they move into couples therapy, we make sure that the disease or the dysfunction or whatever it is it could be a mental health disorder but that there's a common language and a common enemy so that they're partners in that recovery process and they can really hold each other accountable in a healthy, you know, empathic way. So I mean that's part of it. So I do think it's important. I think it's important that they be educated, but first and foremost for the purposes of their own healing and then to build empathy and understanding for their partners.

Speaker 1: 18:27

Definitely, definitely Okay, so like for the listeners who might be in the thick of it right now. So, whether they are the betrayed or the one who is seeking redemption, what's the one piece of advice you would want them to take away from this conversation?

Speaker 2: 18:49

Is that there's healing. There's healing from this. There's a protocol for this, and healing can be for anybody who is willing. It's not just want to, it's willing to so, for anybody who is willing to do the work, my gosh there's healing and there's beauty, and there's authenticity and self-discovery that comes through this tough, challenging process. So, yes, there is a way out is what I want them to know. They do not have to continue in the cycle that they find themselves in.

Speaker 1: 19:36

Exactly yeah.

Speaker 2: 19:36

Lovely. And so how can they start taking small and meaningful steps towards healing? Today, yeah, I think, recognizing what stage you're in and offering yourself grace. For wherever you find yourself, you might be in pre-contemplation, you might be in denial, you might not be willing to accept, you might feel like you have another three or four rounds in you, you might be in contemplation, preparation or an act of action, but wherever you find yourself, act of action. But wherever you find yourself, be there with yourself and offer yourself grace and love. So please pause and love on yourself, and if you're in the throes of addiction or you have a partner who's in, that there is help. There is help and I hope y'all can come to a place of acceptance wow, lovely, lovely, andrea.

Speaker 1: 20:30

This has been such a transformative conversation and thank you so much for sharing your expertise with I mean, I mean your compassion and your incredible insights with us today oh yeah, thank you so much for having me yeah, and for the listeners I'd love mention, like if you want to dive deeper into Andrea's work, be sure to check out her podcast, direct Impact, and her incredible resources through Wise Mind Enterprises.

Speaker 1: 20:57

And for everyone who is listening, remember that intimacy is all about the connection, and the connection starts with courage and the connection starts with courage. So if you are going through something similar, then know that you are not alone and healing is definitely possible. So if this episode has resonated with you, share it with someone who might need to hear this, and do not forget to rate, review and subscribe to Pleasure Principles so you do not miss a single episode. So until next time, stay curious, stay compassionate and always seek pleasure in life's principles. So thank you so much.