Life After Narcissism: Breaking Free and Rebuilding - Kimber Foster

Kimber Foster's voice trembles slightly as she recounts the moment she knew she had to escape her narcissistic marriage. "He told me he would destroy me, leave me with nothing, turn the kids against me..." It wasn't just emotional survival at stake—her very sense of self had been systematically dismantled over years of psychological manipulation.

This powerful conversation dives deep into the mechanics of narcissistic abuse, examining the 17 distinct manipulation tactics Wendy identified through her own traumatic experience. From the initial "honeymoon phase" where narcissists morph into your perfect partner, to the gradual erosion of boundaries, self-worth, and reality itself, Kimber Foster walks us through the playbook used by these master manipulators. Her insights on gaslighting, projection, and isolation reveal how victims find themselves trapped on what she calls "the crazy wheel"—a disorienting cycle where you're constantly questioning your own perceptions and worth.

The most valuable aspects of our discussion focus on the practical steps for breaking free, especially when children are involved. Kimber shares the divorce checklist she created (available as a free download through our show notes), which covers everything from financial preparation to establishing safe communication channels. Perhaps most importantly, she offers hope to those still trapped, emphasizing that healing isn't just about escaping—it's about rediscovering joy, pleasure, and a renewed sense of self after years of survival mode. "Don't let fear hold you back," she urges. "Believe and trust in yourself and move forward." For anyone who has felt the suffocating control of a toxic relationship, this conversation serves as both validation and roadmap toward freedom.

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Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to Narcissistic Relationships
• 2:36 Wendy's Breaking Point
• 5:49 Red Flags and Manipulation Tactics
• 9:12 Preparing to Leave with Children
• 11:49 First Steps to Breaking Free
• 14:02 Post-Separation Abuse and Protection
• 18:19 Rediscovering Joy After Trauma
• 21:55 Final Thoughts and Resources

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:04

Welcome back to another episode of Pleasure Principles, where we get real about love, desire, healing and, often, the messy path to self-discovery. I'm your host, ravik, and today we are tackling a topic that so many people struggle with but don't always have the words to explain Narcissistic relationships and the recovery. Yes. So what happens when love turns into control, when devotion becomes a weapon, and how do you rebuild yourself after losing years, sometimes decades, to a relationship that was never truly yours? So think about it, dear listener. So do also let me know your perspective, what you think about it, and would love to listen to your perspectives also, so you can share your perspectives over social media or other podcast platforms. Would love to hear you, and today I'm honored to have with me the one and only, wendy Datema.

Speaker 1: 1:14

So welcome to the show, wendy. Thank you for having me Lovely. So, wendy, like before we start, I'll quickly love to introduce you to other four listeners. So, dear listeners, wendy is an incredible woman who has lived through and I have to say like survived the torment of a narcissistic relationship. So her book, a year of thorns what to expect when divorcing a narcissist dives deep into the mental and emotional warfare that comes with breaking free. So she didn't just leave. She survived and she's here today to share her wisdom, her battle scars and, the most importantly, her hope. So welcome to the show, gil.

Speaker 1: 2:06

Thank you, it's a pleasure to be here, lovely, lovely. So, wendy, like your story, is one of the resilience and courage and I know that so many people listening will definitely going to relate it. So what was the moment? If you can share, like you knew you had to leave, I mean not just that you wanted to, but that your life depended on it.

Speaker 2: 2:36

Well, I had known for years I was slowly turning into a husk of the person I once was and I was depressed and sad. And at one point we were living internationally and I expressed my desire to leave, which didn't go well, and he told me that he would destroy me, leave me with nothing, turn the kids against me, the whole kit and caboodle and scared me to the point where I knew it was going to be difficult to leave him. But I didn't at that point. It wasn't until later we got back to the States and I just had one of those panic attacks. I had never had one before. It was on our anniversary panic attacks. I had never had one before it was on our anniversary. And I just knew it was like a bucket filled to the brim, you know, over time. And then that last drop in the bucket just spilled and it was that fight or flight and I knew I had to make a change, for not only for myself, I had to make a change, for not only for myself but for my family.

Speaker 1: 3:53

Got it, got it. So, like looking back, I mean, do you think that there were some red flags that you missed early, or do you think that people in these situations rationalized them away?

Speaker 2: 4:03

Both. There are plenty of red flags from the very first year that we got married. But I was in love. I had made a commitment to my vows. Nobody in my family had ever been divorced. I really held that commitment to my vows very seriously, very seriously. And then later on, as his career grew, so did his ego and so did the abuse, and I found that when you're with a narcissistic partner, you're on a crazy wheel I like to call it. Imagine a wheel and you try to jump off and they'll pull you right back on and they distort your reality to such a degree that you think you're the crazy one, that when you try to set a boundary they push back even harder. So it's a little bit of both.

Speaker 1: 5:06

Yeah, got it. So, like in your book, you also describe the mind games, the control, the slow erosion of self-worth.

Speaker 2: 5:18

So if you can also break down some of the most common tactics that narcissists use to keep their partners trapped, yes, so I wrote my book, which is essentially my journal, on my inner breaking, and it wasn't until after my divorce that I realized that I was married to a narcissist and I hadn't had a degree in psychology, but you know, the N-word I call it wasn't as mainstream back then. And that's when I started reading all these books and I realized my story wasn't unique, it was universal. And I started educating myself on all these manipulative tactics and I said, wow, you know, that's projection, that's gaslighting alienation. In my book I identified 17 different tactics and I go back through my journal.

Speaker 2: 6:27

I go okay, he did this and this is an example of gaslighting, which is you know. You say, oh, I think this has happened. You know my feelings are hurt and they'll change the subject and just put you on the crazy wheel and you don't know what's top from bottom. Yeah, so gasoline is a very strong technique that they use for manipulation, but it's all about control. You know, fear, alienation. We moved every three years so I was not with a good support group if I did want to break free or seek help and projection. A lot of times narcissists project what they truly feel inside about themselves. They're actually very insecure and terrified of abandonment. Those are just a couple. I mean I could go on.

Speaker 1: 7:05

Yeah, yeah, no, that's true. I mean I could go on. Yeah, yeah, no, that's true, that's right. I mean it's really, really helpful. It actually gonna definitely help listeners for sure. So and also like, but this, if you can also mention, like, what are some of these subtle signs that someone might not even realize that they are experiencing?

Speaker 2: 7:26

Well man, narcissists and even a narcissistic psychopath that someone might not even realize that they are experiencing.

Speaker 2: 7:31

Well, narcissists and even a narcissistic psychopath are extremely intelligent and manipulative, so it's really difficult to spot Initially. You know I call it the honeymoon phase. They morph into the person you want them to be. They may seem very charming and they lure you in like a spider. You know they just lure you in and then, once they have you, that's when the manipulation and control starts. You know Us too, yeah, and they diminish your character so you feel like you can't do better than them. You can't leave them. There's a lot of different components to it so you become kind of dependent on them. Things like that I was a people pleaser and a narcissist tends to prey upon that kind of person. You know that's easy to manipulate and control and I wasn't good at setting boundaries, so it was really easy to do that.

Speaker 1: 8:38

Okay, okay, no, I can understand, definitely yes. And also on this like this is this is we're discussed when kind of initial stage, or maybe in the scenarios, but now if the scenario is like because living is never so easy, so especially when the scenario is like when children are involved, so what steps did you have to take, not just legally but mentally, to prepare for breaking free?

Speaker 2: 9:12

Well, that's why I waited so long. I mean, he threatened me and I was terrified, not only for myself but for my life, and I was afraid I was going to lose my children. I was afraid I was going to lose my children. I did write a divorce checklist and I'll put it as a link at the end of this, so if your readers would like, a free copy.

Speaker 2: 9:38

They could download it. Nothing could have prepared me for what I went through, to be honest, so I created this guide to give anyone that's going through it the armor that they might need to help them. I had no idea how bad it could be, but it was important. I do that and I try to talk about my year, like my book is talking about my year of struggle, my year of pain, but I really prefer to focus on thriving in my year of survival. And thriving Because I don't want to scare your readers or your listeners saying this is going to be horrible, your readers or your listeners saying this is going to be horrible.

Speaker 2: 10:26

It's going to be easy, but they say that when you work at something, that's what makes it so much better in the long run you have to work for something that has meaning and a rainbow at the end, you know. So I created this guide and it gives you all the information that you need, step by step, what you need to cover in your judgment in a divorce, and children specifically, because unfortunately, children are a lot of times caught in the crossfires of the war and when you're divorcing a narcissist. The canopy of child support, at least in the United States, just covers food, shelter and clothing, so there's so many other things that aren't covered. You know, what about drivers, marriages, sports education, cell phones, video games? I mean, there's so many things like that, and it's really important to have that all figured out, or during the divorce process, so it eliminates the level of conflict for the children later on.

Speaker 1: 11:38

Exactly no, I agree on this, definitely so. Like for the listeners who feel stuck right now, what's the very first thing they should do? What do you suggest?

Speaker 2: 11:52

Well, I talk about. There's three things. The first thing is fear. You got to get over your fear. Fear will keep you in a situation where you're not allowed to grow and break free and I love this quote. But someone once said what you're not changing where you're not allowed to grow and break free and I love this quote. But someone once said what you're not changing, you're choosing. So you're choosing to be in a toxic relationship. You're choosing to be in that situation and only you can change that. So I always say so you need to break free of that fear. You need to work through those challenges. It's not going to be easy, but it will be worth it in the end.

Speaker 2: 12:33

The next thing is to set proper boundaries. I was not good at that and a lot of times when you deal with a narcissist, they push back even harder. But you just got to persevere and stick to your guns and listen to your God and believe in yourself. Believe what you know to be true inside, believe that you are good enough and that you deserve kindness and respect and to be happy Every person who deserves to be treated with love, kindness and respect. And then the next thing is you know, I talk about this in my divorce checklist. You know, getting your finances together and make sure that you have a safe place and a support group. That is very, very important. My divorce he wouldn't move out and I didn't have any money of my own, so we were in the same house going through the divorce for a year and it was a living hell. So it's real important to have that safe place and support.

Speaker 1: 13:35

Yeah, so, like also you mentioned, that the abuse didn't stop after you left it escal. So many people assume that once you walk away you are free, but which I feel it's not in all the scenarios. So if you can also talk about the realities of the post-separation abuse and how one can navigate it, yeah, it's.

Speaker 2: 14:02

As I mentioned earlier, a narcissist's greatest fear is abandonment, and so when you say you're going to leave, it almost triggers them and you're in the discard phase. So they go from a loving supposedly loving spouse to just full on. It's a war, a war that they have to win at all costs, no matter the children losing their job. I mean it's just a war that they have to win at all costs, no matter the children losing their job. I mean it's just they're very driven. So it's real important to protect yourself.

Speaker 2: 14:36

For me, again, the judgment of divorce was our holy grail, our Bible, and he wouldn't pay for anything, he wouldn't follow the rules of the court. So he would say, you know, yes, I agreed to pay for this. And then, when later on I would say, okay, you owe me for the children's phone, they'd be like well, I never said that. You know, it was a constant battle, not only for me but for the kids, and he would, you know, have the kids, take them away, scare me. But I also found, though, like they become very again, it's projection. He started recording me, tracking me. I found listening devices, hidden videos. He stalked me. Listening devices, hidden videos. He stalked me. I had to get a personal protection order in place to have my safe space to grow and heal.

Speaker 1: 15:37

Wow, I mean it's too dangerous. I would say yeah, definitely.

Speaker 2: 15:45

I see this in my book and I tell everybody that through my coaching and stuff. It's important, when you're breaking free from a narcissist, not to engage, because you're never going to make an argument. Like I said, they'll put you on that crazy wheel and then it's just a constant spinning back and forth and I say don't engage. You know, block them on everything social media, phone calls, emails. Unfortunately, we had children, so I had to maintain at least one port of communication and they have websites for that. They have one I think we used called Life360 or something like that. Oh, where we communicated on a website. The attorneys could see, the judge could see, but even that he used that as a platform to try and smear me. It was just so. The best thing is just don't engage if you can.

Speaker 1: 16:36

Exactly. That's always the best part of it. Yeah, yes, so I mean, and also, at the same time, if you can share, like what are some of the biggest misconceptions about life after leaving a narcissist?

Speaker 2: 16:54

Well, it's not easy because you became a husk of the person you once were Throughout the divorce process or the marriage. I lost myself, I lost my self-esteem, I became insecure and I really did believe no one would love me after the divorce. And I really did believe no one would love me after the divorce. So it's really about learning to love yourself again and trust in yourself. That was a big component and it's not easy. I mean, you can bet the narcissist will have a girlfriend the next day, but us survivors, it takes a while. And it's not easy because you have those negative comments and actions just conditioned into your brain for so long. It's hard to break that.

Speaker 1: 17:53

It's very hard to break those thoughts.

Speaker 2: 17:56

Exactly Okay, and so like healing from this kind of trauma isn't just kind of about moving on. It's all about rediscovering joy, pleasure and sense of self. So what did that look like for you? I mean, how did you reclaim pleasure in life after years of survival mode? I love that you asked me that question. Yeah, it was exactly what you said learning to find out what made me happy. I was such a people pleaser. It was always what can I do for him, what can I do for our children? And all of a sudden I'm free and I'm like what can I? What brings me happiness and joy? So for me, it was doing the things I loved. You know, I liked art and interior design and decorating, and I even started on my own floral business. So it's just discovering, you know, those things that bring you joy. Yeah, mm-hmm.

Speaker 1: 18:56

Amazing and um, okay, so like uh, there are so many people who are listening right now or maybe they will be listening so who see themselves in your story, so what key message do you have for them? What's one truth? Uh, you wish that every survivor knew it.

Speaker 2: 19:19

Don't lose faith, you know. Don't let fear hold you back. Believe and trust in yourself and move forward, and not to look back. You know, my book is a reflection of my year, but I needed to write that. It was therapeutic for me to understand what I went through. But now it's all about moving forward and seeking joy and happiness, because ultimately, that's what God wants for us all is love and to be loved. Yeah, yeah, and we deserve it.

Speaker 1: 19:53

That's true, and like if you had to describe your future in three words. So what would they be?

Speaker 2: 20:04

oh, you didn't tell me this. Yeah, it's a tough one um three words, uh-huh my future.

Speaker 1: 20:12

So so I'll, I'll, I'll, leave that three words. I will, I'll keep it open for you, okay.

Speaker 2: 20:18

I'll have to think about it. Yeah, I mean I just I want to say like happiness, joy and love. But yeah, If you had to put three, Okay, happiness, joy, love.

Speaker 1: 20:34

I don't know, I don't know, that's a tough one, but those three you mentioned is very important Happiness, love and joy. It's very, very, very important. So I truly agree on this for sure. And so, dear listeners, I believe you have learned a lot. So, dear listeners, I believe you have learned a lot.

Speaker 1: 21:01

And uh, and the situations uh through through, uh, wendy went through, um, it's, and I believe, uh, most of us will get to, uh, I mean, feel that, or maybe we some, somehow or the other, we get to experience this for sure.

Speaker 1: 21:18

So I believe today's episode will definitely help you understand, help you bifurcate things, how you should do that and everything. So, thank you so much, wendy, for sharing your honest, your vulnerability and your willingness to help others who are still trapped in the, I would say, nightmare Nightmare. You survived, so your strength is definitely incredible and your story is definitely a beacon of hope for so many people. I hope so, yeah, exactly so, dear listeners, like if you are in a relationship that feels kind of suffocating, where love feels more like control. So please know that you are not alone and there is a way out and there is a life that is waiting for you on the other side of the survival. And Wendy's book A Year of Thorns is a must read for anyone who is navigating, leaving or recovering from a relationship with a narcissist. So I'll put all the links into the show notes for you, easy reference to your listeners.

Speaker 2: 22:33

And also Wendy, like if you can mention where people can connect with you easily. Yes, it'll be on that link with a copy of my divorce checklist.

Speaker 1: 22:38

Perfect, yeah, lovely, so great, dear listeners. So healing is as I mentioned. Healing isn't just about escaping the past, so it's all about reclaiming the future. You mentioned something. Yes, please.

Speaker 2: 22:54

Oh yeah, no, I loved how you just said that. That was perfect.

Speaker 1: 22:58

Yeah, yeah, so, yeah, that is. I loved how you just said that that was perfect. Yeah, yeah, so yeah. That is the thing I wanted to mention to your listeners, and so I'll always say that keep seeking for the joy, keep demanding respect, because respect is something which we all need, we all. It's our, it's not a demand. I would say, rather, I all uh, it's our, it's not a demand, I would say, rather, I would say it's our, it's our need, for sure, and never stop believing in your work. So, with this hope, until next time, this is your host avik, signing off from pleasure principles stay safe, stay strong and stay true to yourself. So thank you so much.