Swipe with Caution: Dating Safety in the Digital Age

What if I told you that your phone number could be the key to your home? For just $2-5, a stranger from a dating app can discover where you live and work within minutes. This sobering reality forms the foundation of our eye-opening conversation with marriage and family therapist Kelly Ducanis, who has transformed her 15 years of relationship coaching experience into a mission to keep daters safe.

The digital dating landscape has fundamentally changed how we connect, creating a world where we willingly meet strangers without proper vetting. Kelly reveals the dangerous disconnect between perceived empowerment and actual vulnerability that characterizes modern dating. Most alarming is how many daters remain unaware of basic safety protocols, treating dating horror stories as entertainment rather than warnings.

After learning of two horrific incidents involving people she knew personally - one where a woman was assaulted in her home and another where a man was lured to a false address and attacked - Kelly created her Swipe Safely course. Her three non-negotiable safety rules form the cornerstone of dating protection: never share your real phone number, keep identifying details off your profiles, and always have a phone conversation before meeting in person. These simple yet powerful practices send a clear signal to potential predators that you're not an easy target.

Perhaps most illuminating is Kelly's insight into boundaries and red flags. She explains that how someone responds to your safety requests reveals volumes about their character. Someone who pushes back against reasonable precautions demonstrates a fundamental lack of empathy that extends far beyond dating safety.

Whether you're actively dating or have loved ones navigating the complex world of online connections, this episode provides essential knowledge that could quite literally save lives. Because as

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Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome to Pleasure Principles
• 1:24 Meet Kelly: Dating Safety Expert
• 3:02 The Biggest Shift in Modern Dating
• 5:44 How Phone Numbers Create Vulnerability
• 9:50 True Dating Horror Stories
• 13:05 Three Non-Negotiable Safety Rules
• 18:03 Setting Critical Boundaries
• 24:15 Final Thoughts and Resources

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:06

Hey everyone, beautiful people, welcome back to another episode of Pleasure Principles, the podcast where we dive deep into all the messy, magnificent and magical layers of what brings us joy, connection and intimacy in this wild ride called life and intimacy in this wild ride called life. I'm your host, vivek, and today we are bringing the heat, the hard and the hard truths, because we are talking about guess what it's? Dating safety, yes. So let's be real, dear listeners. I mean swiping, liking, dm, sliding. It can feel like a fun fun game, but what if that game could change your life or even threaten it? Good to think, right. So, dear listeners, I'd love to uh know your perspective on this, what you think about this. You can share your story, as, whether you have faced this kind of scenarios where you have done it like any fun stories or any real life stories, do share with us. We'd love to listen to your story and your perspective as well, and today's guest is Kelly Ducanis. So welcome to the show, kelly, thank you.

Speaker 1: 1:21

It's great to be here, lovely, lovely. So, kelly, like before we start, I'd quickly love to introduce you to all of our listeners. Dear listeners, let me tell you she is the real deal A marriage and family therapist, abc TV dating and relationship contributor, and a powerhouse with over 15 years of coaching experience. So she doesn't just help people find the love, but she helps them find it safely. So, after yes, yeah, yeah and and uh also I was just mentioning that after seeing firsthand the uh preventable dangers of the online dating, she she also launched Swipe Safely. It's a course that's changing the game for anyone who is navigating the modern romance. So grab your drink, take a deep breath and let's get into this, because pleasure is powerful, but safety is very important.

Speaker 2: 2:24

So welcome to the show again thank you, avik, and thank you so much for linking that, that pleasure and safety, because, um, what I teach my clients, what I'm trying to teach everyone that's dating, is to have that safety thing, feel good like, feel Feel powerful, feel empowering Just be part of your pleasure experience.

Speaker 1: 2:46

Exactly exactly. So I mean, as I already mentioned, like you, have been coaching for 15 years and seen these trends. The dating trends evolve wildly. So what, according to you, is the biggest shift that you have seen in how people approach dating today?

Speaker 2: 3:04

shift that you have seen in how people approach dating today. Biggest shift is the willing, the willingness to go out and be how can I say it to be connecting with someone that they really haven't vetted, they don't have. You know, it's not someone that was recommended or set up on a blind date, or that they met organically and they have some kind of context.

Speaker 2: 3:29

The biggest shift is that comfort with the non-anonymity of people on a dating app okay and uh, yeah, you were saying something um, and I was gonna say in pre and post, I think also the biggest shift is there's this willingness to go out on a date with someone on a dating app, but then that knowledge that it could be a catfisher.

Speaker 2: 3:55

It could be, you know, there could be something wrong and I don't know how to deal with it. So then people start trying to get their safety by doing dating practices that aren't aren't serving their goal of finding their person but make them feel a little bit safer. But then they end up, you know dropping connections or ghosting, or you know getting, you know putting up barriers and seeing if others will jump over it to prove safety in ways that really don't prove safety. So that's been a huge shift since I started back in the 2000s when, you know, people were meeting and they kind of had a context and knew other people and it was more about making sure that they showed up authentically and they knew what they wanted. Now we've got a lot of things to teach.

Speaker 1: 4:44

Very true, very true. And do you think that this shift has made people more vulnerable or more empowered?

Speaker 2: 4:53

So I think it's made people more vulnerable, but they think that they're empowered. When I talk to people, especially men, they don't really have a concept of the dangers of dating other than, oh, let me tell you about the dating horror story, and there's kind of a pride in it almost sometimes. But they don't understand the number one thing I teach if your listeners come away with anything, don't give your phone number out. Once somebody has your phone number, for two to five dollars they can find out your address and where you work in about two minutes flat. People don't understand the interconnectedness of this information that used to, just, you know, be something just part, a normal part of dating. It's very dangerous to give people access to you right away people access to you right away, exactly, very truly said.

Speaker 1: 5:49

I mean it's, it's very dangerous sometimes, yeah and uh, and it's really, really this distinction is powerful. I mean so many uh people confuse like access with the intimacy. So, um, we can meet more people than ever, but do we really know how to safely connect with them? So what do you say on this?

Speaker 2: 6:09

Exactly, and because people kind of have you know, people are smart and they have an awareness. This isn't quite safe, but nobody's talking about why it's not safe. What to do instead? People are coming up with their own ways of vetting people and a lot of times the vetting isn't doing the job they want it to do and sometimes it's actually keeping the people that would be a good fit out of their lives and letting the people that aren't a great fit in, Because they're saying like, oh well, you know, I make sure that I tell my girlfriends where I'm going on this date, or I always make sure that they buy me dinner, and if they won't buy me dinner, then they're not safe, like from a woman's perspective, and men often just aren't even aware that.

Speaker 2: 7:00

I mean, there are two Netflix specials, Baby Reindeer. I mean there are two Netflix specials, Baby Reindeer, and then I can't remember the name of the other one, but it was a serial killer, one where a man was stalked for 50 years by someone that he met on a dating app in the early 2000s and that woman killed a woman he went on a date with and harassed and terrorized him and his ex-wife and children for 15 years. For 15 years Now. These are rare examples, but this is the kind of thing that you invite in when you don't have a strategy and a plan for how to make sure the person on the other end of the phone call is is safe exactly, very true, this idea, I mean this is this is something.

Speaker 1: 7:40

It's not a story, this is something which happens, actually, dear listeners, so good to think about it. Do, do, do, do think about it, yeah and uh also, um, like you created swipe safely after two horrific, horrific stories, that should and and then. So what stood out to me was your confidence that these assholes were preventable. I mean so, on this, like, what are the most common blind spots that people have when dating online? If you can share on this?

Speaker 2: 8:21

I love that question and I just, for your listeners' sake, the two stories that Avik is referring to In one week I heard about, two friends had either a child or a friend's child, were raped. One was male and gay, one was female and straight. It happened while her mom was in the house, while she had a date with a man that she had gone out with twice already. So and the other one, the man, went to pick up his date at the house that the date had the address that give him and he got pulled inside the house and gang raped. So these are things that happen both to men and women and the two just like the two basic things that I found that I was just wondering why are my clients having great, like we had no horror stories? I have a boutique business that's a high ticket experience where I walk you through my dating protocol and coach you and help you in all aspects of you know, from writing your profile to finding the person, interacting with the person and vetting them, and like why are my clients just not we don't have any horror stories? Or they come in with horror stories, but the minute they start doing my program, the horror stories go away and I figured out that my vetting process really makes it so that it's hard.

Speaker 2: 9:41

You're not an easy target anymore. Someone that's looking for to abuse or hurt in any way wants someone that it's quick and easy to get to them and they can get out quick and easy. Right, there's a lot of trace. And when I teach people how, to date, there's a lot of contact, there's a lot of trace. And when I teach people how, to date, there's a lot of contact. There's a lot of connection. There's a lot of vetting. So somebody that's looking to hurt can't handle that and that kind of drives them away. And someone that's looking for authenticity, a real relationship, has the emotional maturity to handle it. They're drawn to that. So, instead of creating the barriers that people think, they're creating the hoops to handle it, they're drawn to that. So, instead of creating the barriers that people think, they're creating the hoops to jump through, like, oh okay, this guy's into me. Well, no, he's not. You actually made it really easy for him to have access to you, but you didn't have the proper perspective on what you're trying to do, if that makes sense.

Speaker 1: 10:34

Exactly, exactly Makes sense and um and uh, that's right, I'm not sure if I answered your question.

Speaker 2: 10:43

Did that, did I?

Speaker 1: 10:45

yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. So I was on this. Only I was just asking, like, if someone's who is listening right now, uh, and the incidents also which you have mentioned, definitely uh, and thinking that that could never happen to me. So what do you say to?

Speaker 2: 11:01

them. You're right in assuming that the statistics are with you, that it's probably not going to happen to you, but the long-term effects, the hurt, the hurt, the injury to yourself and others if it does is so damaging. Imagine if somebody comes on the Internet. You're a woman and you have children, or you're a man and have children. Somebody's trying to find children and they use you to get information so that they can assure your children that dad or mom sent you to pick them up. Like when stuff happens, it's bad. We're talking. Just two months ago there was an incident where someone went on a Tinder date, decided to go home with the person and they found her body in bags, separate bags, places, Like. So now millions of tinder dates happen every night.

Speaker 2: 12:02

We don't need to be terrified of this, but we need to be aware that there are preventions and precautions that we can take so that we're not an easy target, so that it's hard to get what the payoff that somebody that wants to harm us wants to get exactly, exactly and um, lovely evan, it really that that is its home, and it's not about living in fear.

Speaker 1: 12:28

it's all about, uh, being prepared not pray for sure, and um, so let's yeah, and let's break it down what are your top three non-negotiable rules that everyone must follow to stay safe when using the dating apps?

Speaker 2: 12:58

safe. The number one thing is you never want to give someone your phone number, so you want to open up a Google voice because people WhatsApp is really associated with scammers, especially on dating apps. So Google voice if there's something else out there that I don't know about that gives you a phone number, but it doesn't link your phone number back to your address, your place of business, your full name. So don't give your phone number and your full name and as little information about what, what your life, where your life happens, is possible until you really have not just heard from the other person but you've seen in real life that the friends that they tell you about actually exist, the job that they tell you about actually exists, the family actually exists. Then the second thing is when you're doing profile pictures, make sure that you're not saying oh, my favorite cafe, I go here every day for a latte and there's a big picture of where it is. That gives somebody. Somebody can look at that picture, know where it is in town or Google it and start stalking you just because they looked at your picture and you don't even know they exist yet. So make sure that your pictures have no license plates. It's hard to find someone from license plate, but still, um, you know the license plates. No, no, this is where I go all the time type things, or, or even, or even, just identifying stuff that that somebody could um figure out where it is. You are in the world. So that's number one. Um, get that phone number. Make sure that your profile doesn't make it easy to stalk you.

Speaker 2: 14:33

Number two is you want to always make sure that you talk with someone on the phone before you meet them, and there's two reasons for this right. The first reason is a date is a bit, especially for a woman. A date is a big investment. We're going to, we're going to look pretty, we're going to put our makeup on. You know we're, we're going to even just a coffee date. And so, before you go through that effort, you don't want to get drained, you don't want to get burnt out by dating. You want to make sure that it's pleasant to converse with the person on the other end of this app, exchange right, that the conversation flows, that it's enjoyable.

Speaker 2: 15:12

Now, what this did and I didn't realize it is people that have something in mind that you know they want to harm. This is a barrier Someone that's not willing to just jump up but go out on a date, even if they're not conscious of it, like, oh, this is someone who's cautious, this is someone who's not going to do something rash, like go home that night with you or whatever. So this is just kind of sending out a signal, a bat signal, if you will. That kind of makes okay, not an easy target right, not easy to take advantage of, and it also saves you from being stuck in a social situation that you want to get out of and you wish you had never been on. So it's twofold it's going to work in your favor both ways.

Speaker 1: 16:02

Exactly.

Speaker 2: 16:04

And then the third thing. I think most women know that you know you should tell someone when you're going on a date and tell them where you're going. What women don't think of is we really don't want the information to find the killer or the person that harmed you or abducted you. We want the person who you're meeting to know that if they do something, there's a likelihood that they're going to get caught. We want to deter them. So, as a deterrent, you want to make sure when you show up on that date, hey, uh, you know, halfway through, I'm checking in with my girlfriend. I've sent you, you know, if you show up and the person doesn't look like their picture, abort, because that's, you know, that's someone that you want to take a screenshot of who the person is, send it to a friend. You want to have your tracking on your phone. There's, you know we can go really deep into it, but at the very least you want to alert the person that you're meeting Like, hey, you know, I'm going to be checking in halfway through. I'm so glad to meet you. I hope we have a really pleasant experience so that they know like this is someone that has thought through the dangers and someone's watching.

Speaker 2: 17:18

Now, this isn't an easy target. This isn't someone that you're going to be able to do something with and nobody's going to miss them until the next morning or a couple of days from now. This is someone who's going to be missed or, you know, being tracked while we're speaking. You don't even have to tell them that you're tracking. Once you say you're checking in with someone, now they're like oh, are they tracking her? And it's just. It puts a lot of doubt in it. So those are the top three. There's a lot more. Obviously, I wouldn't have built a whole course if there were just three things, but those are the three things. If I could get everyone to do it, I feel like the safety would go from like 0% to 10% to really 50%, 60%, 70%. It really makes a difference.

Speaker 1: 17:57

No, no, that's very true. Yeah, exactly. And the boundaries, the big B word, yeah. So what are the most critical boundaries to set early on in the digital dating?

Speaker 2: 18:14

Okay, that's really great and it's hard like I don't ever want to come across. As you know, some people want to have sexual experiences. That's not my job to say, do or don't do anything morally. However, when you go to someone's house, you are you're very, very vulnerable. Right One boundary If you are going to, if you are looking to have sexual experiences and one night stands one night stands hotel there are other people around. It's very hard to have. I mean, somebody could think it through, but if you're the one that suggests it, then if they're all set up at home to do something whatever and you suggest a hotel, they they can't. Um, so that, so that you know they still, if you continue to see them, you've've just got to be really, really careful because you really don't.

Speaker 2: 19:14

Anyone can say anything on the internet. They can present themselves in any way. They can say anything. They can make you feel like they are any kind of person and be anything that they can figure out that you want them to be. So the first boundary is really setting up this line of. These are the situations I will, or I will not let myself be in, and these are the things that somebody has to do in order for me to open up and be vulnerable and not just talking about emotionally vulnerable to go to their house, to be in their life, to go to a hotel room. These are, you know, and for me it's not about morality, it's about let's be safe Until you see evidence that what they're telling you actually exists in real life. This could be someone that created a one night persona for this experience, and hopefully it's just. You know, it's just to have a sexual experience, but if it's to hurt, that's that's what we're trying to avoid. Exactly, exactly, true, I'm not here for an interview. That's kind of. If men can't understand that women are at an incredible disadvantage. Safety wise and just respect what you want to do, that's a huge red flag and that's a boundary that you want to keep because you want to.

Speaker 2: 20:55

If you're dating, to find a person to connect with, you want to see how they respond to your requests for safety and assurance, and if the first request for safety and assurance that you give them is met with pushback, I had someone get mad at me because we had a phone call and it went nice, it was a little off, but and I I was actually doing a little research I normally wouldn't have done a date but I was like, okay, I'm going to, I think he's a little off, but I want to check. And he said, okay, well, let's meet tomorrow or the next day. And I'm like you know what, I can't. And I actually literally couldn their girlfriends and say, oh, you know, like did I do something wrong? And they'll get all that reassurance that they didn't do anything wrong. You don't do anything wrong by asking for what works for you and keeps you safe. What that?

Speaker 2: 21:52

What had to happen in that situation is that man showed me he did not have the empathy and ability to see what I needed and um, and be able to respond to that. He could have said, oh, that's really disappointing, I thought we would meet sooner. I'm really concerned because a lot of times women will just drag this out. All of that would have been fine to say and I would have responded with I totally understand, my kids are coming home. You know tonight and I don't do first dates when I have the week that I have my kids with me, right, and so if that doesn't work for you, fine, but but that when he showed me who he was, part of boundaries is actually enforcing them Right. It's not just saying a boundary, it's when somebody shows you how they're going to respond to it, you then respond accordingly all right, understood, lovely, great.

Speaker 1: 22:47

So, kelly, thank you so much for this eye-opening and empowering conversation and, um, for everyone who is listening, I mean, you don't have to choose between the love and the safety. You deserve both. So, uh yeah, and also like, if you're navigating the world of online dating, please check out Kelly's course Swipe Safely. It's not just the information, it's the protection, empowerment and the peace of mind, and I guess you have heard everything what she has mentioned. It's it's really important as well. So, kelly, if someone wants to connect with you, how they can connect.

Speaker 2: 23:26

They can go to SwipeSafelycom download the app. You can also go right now my website is under construction, but it's Kellylove and then I'm on Facebook and Instagram Swipe Safely, and you can message me through both of those avenues and Swipe Safely. I do have. The first three lessons are free. They're basically what I went over here, but in more depth and more detail, just because I do obviously want to have people download the app for real. But the goal is to get people safe. The goal is to make sure that there aren't any more news stories that just make me want to weep.

Speaker 1: 24:09

That's really great. So lovely, yeah. So, dear listeners, I'll put all the links into the show notes for easy reference so that you can easily reach out to her and have the benefit of SwipeSafeWeek. So for all of you, to all of you, the pleasure seekers out there, remember that confidence is not just the sexy thing, it's protective. So know your worth and trust your instincts, and also never, ever, apologize for keeping yourself safe, because that is your first priority. So until next time, stay curious, stay courageous and keep following your pleasure principles. So this is your host, tavik, signing off from Pleasure Principles. Thank you so much.